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Another powder question

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Murf425

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Sorry to keep asking stuff that probably falls under the "dumb question" category, but...

My fiancee's dad and one of my coworkers are both muzzleloader hunters. They have both spent all day singing the praises of Triple 7 over black powder, because it's hotter, easier to clean, easier to find, cheaper, etc.

So, what do the guys here have to say about this stuff? A viable thing to use in a GPR, or should I stick with the real stuff?

Also, they said something about using musket caps with it instead of #11's. Would that require a new nipple?
 
I use it in my ROA exclusively, and I like it, but for my long-guns, I stick with real BP. I guess it depends a lot on what's available to you.
 
Your GPR will live long and healthy on a steady diet of REAL black powder and #11 caps.

All the stuff they told you is myth. It's not cheaper. It's not easier to clean. It's not easier to find. You can have real BP delivered to your door for half the price of the fake stuff.

HD
 
Huntin Dawg said:
Your GPR will live long and healthy on a steady diet of REAL black powder and #11 caps.

All the stuff they told you is myth. It's not cheaper. It's not easier to clean. It's not easier to find. You can have real BP delivered to your door for half the price of the fake stuff.

HD

+1 :thumbsup:

I would no sooner load one of my muzzleloaders with that manure than I would load one with maple syrup.

I fell for the marketing when I was younger but over time just couldn't see any advantage to the stuff. The fouling is harder and drier, seems harder to clean, and it takes about twice as much heat(hence the musket caps, 209 primers, etc.) to set the stuff off.
 
Murf425 said:
My fiancee's dad

Remember the important point!
Its not whats right with the rifle its dont get the Fiancee dad mad - try and convert him!

Foster From Flint
 
You wouldn't need Musket caps, which would require a different nipple, they do sell a Magnum cap which helps to ensure ignition with the substitute powders. I've never used 777 but used Pyrodex with regular #11 caps and never had a misfire. There is nothing better than black powder, just different. Black powder is better in many respects; it stinks better,it makes better fouling.......Once you've shot black, you'll never go back.
 
I can't imagine spending all that money to buy a powder that costs so much, deteriorates when its exposed to air( good for the marketers, bad for the buyers) so that it loses it power over a short time, leaves really tough crud in the barrel that is much harder to clean out, and has trouble being ignited with anything other than MAGNUM percussion caps, or those musket caps!

For What? Why would anyone use it, unless you are shooting those cheater guns we don't talk about here?

It doesn't fire in Flintlocks, as its ignition temperature is so high- almost twice the temperature that Black Powder ignites at. There are reports of hangfires with that powder using normal, stanard #11 caps.

So, to use 777, you have to pay more money for it, use it up very soon after you open the can, buy more expensive percussion caps, or modify your gun to shoot musket caps- all to do the same thing you can do with Black Powder, but not as well as its done with Black Powder. Why not use BP< and simply give those dollars you want to throw away to your local club treasury, or send it to the NRA ILA to help preserve your right to own a gun? At least use the money to buy a good cigar, and a good snifter of brandy and enjoy them both after your shooting is done.

The reason those zip guns use 209 shotgun primers to ignite the stuff is because that hot flame is needed to light the 777! Those primers are also more expensive the standard #11 caps, BTW. Some salesmen have been reported to tell shooters that since you are not shooting Black Powder, you don't have to clean the guns like you do with BP. That's true. YOU HAVE TO CLEAN THEM SOONER, and you have to use a couple of cleaners, instead of just soap and water with BP. Remember, you are either shooting Copper jacketed bullets in plastic shoes( sabots) which leaves plastic down your barrel to clean out, or you are shooting bare lead conicals (bullets ) down the barrel that leave lead in the barrel. You will need to use soap and water to remove most of the powder residue, but you will need to use a modern lead and plastic solvent to remove the primer residue, and the plastic or lead in the barrel. The powder forms steel eating acids that are actually worse- more fast acting-- than that created by BP. And you can't escape needing to use BOTH a bore brush, AND a cleaning jag with patches to clean those zip guns. With BP, shooting a PRB, NO lead is left in the barrel, and almost all the residue will dissolve in water.

Once in a rare time, particularly when shooting in freezing temperatures, I will get BP residue that seems to stick in the corners of the rifling grooves, and I have to use a bore brush to knock it loose. I can avoid using that brush by simply letting the barrel soak in soap and water for half an hour, but I am like most shooters, and want to get all that work done before I go on to doing other things. But, if I happen to be distracted after filling my barrel with soap and water, and don't get back to cleaning it for the next half or full hour, The cleaning is a piece of cake- very easy to do.

I got that advice from an older, wiser shooter, after complaining to him how long it took me to get all the graphite out of my barrel one night, and how many patches I used to get the barrel clean. Haste Does Make Waste.

He told me to fill the barrel with soap and water, lean the gun against some corner where it won't be knocked down, and go do something else for an hour or so. Then go back and clean it. He said it takes a bit of time for the carbon to be emulsified by the soap in the water. I was in too much of a " hurry". He had a very good laugh at my frustration, but I followed his advice, and it works. I did call him up and thank him, and he apologized for laughing at me. We are still friends. :thumbsup:
 
The greatest thing about Triple 7, is that they can sell it at Wal-Mart. It takes higher temperatures to light it off, so that is supposed to make it safer to sell inside the stores. But, if you stop to think about it, it is also harder for the hunter/shooter to get to light off, without resorting to hotter forms of ignition. For me, it is real black powder for that reason alone. You can purchase some of the cleanest black powder in the known world for about 1/2 the price of Triple 7, if that is what is really important to you. But still, dirty is dirty, how much more dirt makes you unhappy? My experience is just stay away from the Elephant brand of black powder that is no longer being sold anyhow and they would be real happy with real black powder, that is cheaper and lights off easier. JMHO
 
It is cheaper, it is much easier to clean, & it's easier to find. It's not dirty. It lights just fine with #11 caps.

Walmart sells it at the end of the hunting season for about nothing.

That said, I prefer Goex 3F because it seems more traditional.
 
One thing you need to consider is that you use less 777 than BP, volume wise and weight wise. How it all works out, I'm not sure, but it will add up.
 
You might ask them if the stuff is so damned good why they have to use a special cap to set it off, just mention to them that you have drawn from as much as 50 years of ML experience 30-40 years from many and the clear winner is BP.
 
And also, weekend before last at a friend's shoot I had my traditional strip of pillow ticking in my mouth, from which I cut a spit-soaked cleaning patch after each shot. While I was talking with some of the other guys between rounds, I got my ends mixed up and stuck the end I'd been using to wipe my frizzen in my mouth and began chewing on it. Well, real BP ain't that bad after the first couple of seconds when the initial shock wears off.

Can anyone say the same about any of the replica powders? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
 
Mark Lewis said:
Walmart sells it at the end of the hunting season for about nothing.

There's a reason for that.

If they carried Goex I bet there would never be any left over.

:v

HD
 
The folks that buy powder from Walmart, believe real blackpowder will ruin their gun. They want 777 or Pyrodex RS. I'm not kidding. I buy stuff there like #11 caps for 25 cents a tin.

I use the subs in my caplocks at times because they offer several advantages.
 
I still say Jack's is the best place for real and re-enactor powder...Mark...my new best friend,,,I NEED to speak with you about those #11 caps...really i do...Lee
 
shooter_250 said:
Mark...my new best friend,,,I NEED to speak with you about those #11 caps...really i do...

Same here, for sure. I was just over your this afternoong, buying some Goex at Jimmy's on Eglin Pkwy. I'd gladly drive the 45 minutes to get .25 tins of #11s.
 
Well, the very brief research that I had time to do before leaving the office today led me to believe that the 777 stuff was a waste a time. The way I figure it:

I'm shooting a traditional rifle, so why not use traditional propellant?
Now that I have a local source for Goex, I might as well keep shooting it as long as I can get it.

Thanks for all the advice, guys.
 

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