Another R.E.A.L. bullet question

[gunsmoke]

I recently purchased a R.E.A.L. (380 grain) mold for my T/C .54 New Englander. These bullets seem to go down the barrel with very little resistance. I haven't checked the bullet diameter with a micrometer, but I will be checking that.. Is this normal for this particular bullet? It has a solid bottom so I can't imagine it does much expanding such as a hollow based minie bullet.

 

[MikeFromON]

I use the 300 grain ones in my .54 flinter and they are very tough to load. I can barely get them started before I have to use my oak mallet on my short starter to get them seated and into the barrel. I measured the bands with dial calipers once and I seem to remember that the bottom two rings were under bore diameter but the top ring was a bit larger than bore diameter. I have a bag of Minies too and they practically just slide down the barrel by themselves.

 

[Runner]

In most of my guns they load pretty easily until the last band. Once in the rifling, they slide very easy. Most folks find a little better accuracy using a wad under them, especially if they are using heavy loads.

 

[faw3]

have you done a lot of mould work? I ask because of the blocks need to be really warm and you get a full( I over fill) pour. All mine have been not very tight but as far as will they shoot - the setback from the blast will seal off the back band. Or has on all of mine ( Ive had/have 7 and all work but you could have a rifle that they dont )I havent heard of one the last band that goes in should be the only tight one. Fred :hatsoff:

 

[BrownBear]

My experience with both the 300 and 380 grain REALs is pretty much like Runner. In three different guns they fit finger tight as you push them in till they hit the last ring. At that point you need to whack them with the short starter.

Accuracy is definitely best with a lubed felt wad under the bullet.

If you're casting undersize, there's a good chance you aren't using pure lead. Alloys cast smaller than pure lead. If that would be enough to let the last ring pass into the barrel without engaging the rifling, I see problems because with an alloy you aren't likely to get enough bullet upset when you fire to further engage the rifling.

 

[flintlockmdj]

Runner, The bottom two bands are suposed to be a little undersized and the top band oversized this facilitates streighter loading and the Rifling is Engraved At Loading. Thus the name REAL

 

[MikeFromON]

Yes, the bottom bands are just to hold the lube I think and it's the top one that does the sealing. I recovered one of my REALs from the sand heap but the nose and top band were completely deformed by impact, so I cannot tell if it was grooved by the rilfing or not. The other two bands are virtually unblemished. I should add that I cast mine from clip-on wheel-weights. I would also like to add that on the Brinell Hardness Scale, pure lead is 10, wheel weights are 20, and mild steel is 120, so although loading and performance would be easier with pure lead, I doubt that WW material will cause any more wear on my barrel than normal.

 

[BrownBear]

Good clarification on the differences between the bands (3 on the 300 grain and 4 on the 380 grain), whitebear.

I've never worrried about extra wear from wheelweights Mike, and I've shot uncountable wheelweight bullets through an assortment of cartridge guns over the last 40 years. But the point of hardness is important.

You didn't see any rifling marks on the lower bands specifically because you were using wheelweights. The alloy is simply too hard to allow the bullet to upset or swell to fit the rifling when fired. I got the same thing when I tried wheelweights with REAL bullets and minnies.

But cast the real out of pure lead, and you'll find rifling marks on all the bands of recovered bullets. As a side note, none of my three 54's would average 6" groups at 50 yards with either bullet cast from wheelweight alloy. But bullets of both weights cast from pure lead beat that with all loads in all my rifles, and the best approach PRB accuracy. My hunting load with the 380 breaks 2" at 50 yards all day long and fluctuates around 3" at 75 yards. It's almost that good at 100 yards even with my eyes, but I'm not hunting that far.

 

[gunsmoke]

I'm using pure lead when casting. Yes I preheat the mold too.
Where do I get the prelubed wads? I'll try that too!
Thanks for all of the replies...

 

[BrownBear]

I sometimes find prelubed felt wads in shops, but more often find the plain ones. It's a small matter to sit down with the plain ones and add a dab of WL 1000 to each, then leave them in a bag. In short order the lube spreads and saturates them.

BTW- I've experimented a bit with charges required to "upset" 380 grain 54 cal REAL bullets cast from pure lead. I get a bit of rifling engraving at 60 grains, but it's not consistent. 70 grains is better, but for 100% engraving from bullet upset I rely on a minimum of 80 grains. There's a bit of a shift if you drop down to the 300 grain 54 cal REAL bullets. It seems to take a bit more umph behind them to asure upset, with 70 grains about minimum, and it's most consistent at around 90 grains.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

You get any barrel leading with heavy charges? I've read that heavy powder charges with hollow-base minis can lead up.'Blow the skirt' I think it's called?

 

[rebel727]

I use nothing but original style Minies in my .58 and I use anywhere from 90-120 grs. of powder(mostly 90) and I've never had a blown skirt or had a leading problem. I've heard a lot of talk about blown skirts, maybe with really thin walled skirts it's possible.

 

[TANSTAAFL]

I use nothing but original style Minies in my .58 and I use anywhere from 90-120 grs. of powder(mostly 90) and I've never had a blown skirt or had a leading problem. I've heard a lot of talk about blown skirts, maybe with really thin walled skirts it's possible.

Right on, with minies we are not talking about air gun pellets.

 

[BrownBear]

I have limited experience with the minis, but no leading or blown skirts. The REAL's don't lead either when they're well lubed with the lubed wad under them.

 

[faw3]

Maybe I wrote it wrong the last band should be at least tight enough to hold it in at the muz. Ive had some that are loser than others in the same cal but diff barrel, but never had a problem with them shooting, pure lead being a HAVE TO! Fred :hatsoff:

 

[Runner]

The bands get bigger from the base towards the tip. They are contoured so that the barrel rifling hits the band against a pretty steep angle that tends to center the bullet as it is loaded. The lower bands are supposed to pass over a lot of the fouling as you load the bullet. Once they plump up on firing, they carry the fouling out of the barrel with them on each shot in a scraping effect. That is their design. How that actually works out using the different barrels, powders, and lubes can be very different than that. Try a pinch of a lubed shotgun wad under them instead of the button type wads. As a bullet, they are about as variable in different guns as roundball can be.