Another reason I hate precarves

[Eric Krewson]

This has been a precarve nightmare, I have posted some of the other flaws but just found this one.

I took it for granted that the barrel inlet and ramrod had to be correct so I proceeded. After I got my ramrod pipes in I noticed the ramrod didn't want to go in the stock easily, everything is lined up. I was sighting down the forestock to see if I had removed wood evenly and saw why my ramrod wasn't traveling smoothly down the groove, The precarve people cut the groove with a dogleg past the middle pipe instead of straight. This is going to be a stange gun indeed.

The best I can hope for now is that is shoots well, it is going to be a bit flawed.

 

[Zonie]

Looks to me like you could take a dowel , ramrod or cleaning rod and wrap a piece of sandpaper over it. Laying it into the existing groove, pushing the rod/sandpaper back and forth up and down the groove will straighten it out with no problem.

Just because a stock comes, "Pre Carved" doesn't mean it is finished and ready to go. There are always areas that need attention to get the stock to a "finished" condition.

 

[Ames]

OUCH! Without going down a bad road here, who did the precarve and CHARGED you for that?

 

[Eric Krewson]

It was a kit I bought third hand, a Haines kit that originated from TOW, the original buyer realized he didn't have the skills to build the rifle, the second guy traded for it and passed it on to me at half the catalog price. Being third hand I couldn't hold the preccarver responsible, I did bring all the flaws to their attention though, they didn't respond back.

Zonie, I did run the dowel with sandpaper down the groove. It is actually bows from muzzle to entry pipe. If I had straightened it all the way out I would have a 1/2" wide ramrod groove at the deepest bow. The groove also had a big place gouged out of one side that I had to glue in a patch to fill.

 

[Zonie]

My answer wasn't meant to be an attack on Eric.
I made it for newcomers to building who often think of these "pre-carved" stocks like something that Pedersoli or Ardisa might make.

The way to think about "pre-carved" stocks from Track of the Wolf, Pecatonica River and Muzzleloader Builder's Supply is, they are a roughed out, totally unfinished piece of wood that is the "raw material" for making a gun.

 

[oldwood]

Making a gun out of a planed band sawed stock blank is to say the least , difficult. Making a fairly accurate school related gun out of a planed , band sawed blank , is even more challenging. So , what are the options?? To save time , a precarve is the one way to go. I prefer the kind of precarve , that has only the butt stock carved , and carved .050 thousandths over sized, r/r drilled , and barrel inlet. You have saved at least 40 to 50 hours time having this much done for you.
From this point , a 1000 + word essay could be written on the issues needing possible correction . The more work a precarver does , opens even more avenues for fun learning to correct issues encountered. Not for a beginner to attempt w/o a guide helping him. Don't think I would buy any kind of precarve w/o laying eyes on it. Hate to waste time , if I can prevent it. .....oldwood

 

[rich pierce]

That one would test the patience of a saint. Hang in there.

 

[Bighorserider]

If you don't have the patience of a saint and want to build muzzle loaders you need to buy a Kibler.

 

[Eric Krewson]

My first two builds were plank builds, I did a precarve next without the lock inlet, it was bit of a mess as well but because I was building a slender TN rifle I could make it work. Next it was a Kibler SMR, they spoil one with their precise shape. I made a TC Renegade flinter from random parts with an L&R RPL lock and and put together older (very old) TC hawken kit that was found in my Dad's closet when he went to a nursing home.

No offence taken Zonie, I didn't notice anything in your post but a good advice.

 

[JL]

I'm wanting to get going on my second (or true first) and have been considering all of this. Still not sure if I should go straight "plank," try to find something semi, or roll the dice on a pre-carve. Probably positives and negatives to each when you factor in skill, finished product, and on and on. Hope you get that sorted out, Eric. Sure you will.

 

[SDSmlf]

The best I can hope for now is that is shoots well, it is going to be a bit flawed.

Around corners?

 

[martin9]

I'd put the barrel in and then check it before I started sanding or trying to fix anything.

 

[Rudyard]

" Pre carves ! Luxury!. I used to dream of pre carves! ". But when I got some from Fort Hill or Pecatonica I saw the advantages not the detractions. Most guns I made have been from a plank or even a limb. I would buy seconds( getting round any faults is half the trade ).North Star used to send out good pre shapes for ameturs to cock up while all the faulted ones , a knot some duplicarver glitch. a stocker could get round & they did as' in the whites' .Some thrown away as 'firewood ' from several makers are now perfectly fine guns .Some riven sycamore destined for fence posts on a Derbyshire farm had buetifull curl roughed out by chain saw . They made very nice guns . still have enough for two Jagers . My pet snap matchlock was a walnut limb its been fine & one little rifle was stocked on a river bank from a snag in the Whakatane river .. Pecatonica once had a nice Maple pre shape with just a stump of a fore end its been on a' Turn off' BL flint rifle ever since . Wayne Dunlap had a short but nice dense blank had a crack he practically gave it me at F ship its been a very nice cheek stock English lock carbine these 25 years . Nothing' paint by numbers ' in this firm . Mike Lee used to reckon best grade wood should never be sold to amatures since chances are fair they would make a er rumm ' ' round things' out of it !.
Jocularly Rudyard

 

[toot]

keep us informed.

 

[Eric Krewson]

The gun is almost finished The barrel has been in and out a zillion times because I had to drop it and move it back because it had "issues" in th ebarrel inletting.

One more thing to do then remove a little more excess wood and I am done. I hate nose caps.

 

[user 34300]

Lots of times I find precarves to be more difficult than a plank. Precarves can be really messed up and unusable. Too much time is spent working around defects. Unfortunately you have to work on it for awhile before you find out is it is defective. At that point it can not be returned.

A few years ago I cut up an expensive hawken precarve with my bandsaw. I was junk from the get go and I was many hours into it before I realized it was completely unusable. The barrel channel was way too deep a the breech end. That made the lock sit to low for the stock's profile. I tried to compensate by notching the plate deeper for the bolster and bending the hammer to compensate, ruining the lock in the process.

When I have had problems with precarves it tends to be something that is done in a separate step than the main shape. In this case it was obviously set in the pantograph wrong after the barrel was rough inletted. Ramrod drilling can be badly done if it is done after the barrel is inletted. It is better to inlet the barrel after the ramrod hole is drilled. Watch out for badly placed lock inlets too. It's better to do the lock inlet 100% yourself.

On my Hawken, I bought a plank, a new lock, and made my rifle, exactly as it was supposed to be. It was logical and pleasant work. The plan was drawn on the plank to the finest detail. The plan was executed, and a nice rifle was made. I did not have to work around another person's mistakes. This can save time over many precarves.

This only applies to the run of the mill precarve. Kibler and Chambers, for instance, make excellent stocks.

 

[pooch156]

The gun is almost finished The barrel has been in and out a zillion times because I had to drop it and move it back because it had "issues" in th ebarrel inletting.

One more thing to do then remove a little more excess wood and I am done. I hate nose caps.
View attachment 45617

Just finished inletting for the nose cap on my third build. Same as the one in your pic. They can be frustrating . . . At least for me. My toughest one was on a Isaac Haines .50 cal. with a Getz swamped barrel!

 

[toot]

it is comming along.

 

[Spikebuck]

Dave Person has a great process for doing the nose cap. He's posted the process in a few of his building posts here. While I've not had too much trouble with nose caps, I'm definitely using his process when I do the nose cap on the rifle I'm currently building for my wife.

In my process, I always had a lot of work getting that tight fit of the back of the cap to the stock wood. Dave solves that with a fine saw cut around the wood to make that perfectly straight edge to match the back of the cap.

 

[hanshi]

While there are a few precarves that get good to super reviews most can be problematic to one degree or another. I have a rifle built by a gifted builder (sadly retired) who finally refused to ever do another build from a precarve. He liked plank building because it avoided someone else's mistakes.