Another Sky Chief Load Convert

[Firelock937]

I've asked this before, but what does 1.5 ounce of shot amount to in a volumetric measurer? I'm trying to get my "special turkey choke" barrel to shoot well and I think I'm getting close, but would like to know what people are using for shot. I also purchased some Hevi-shot last year (7.5 shot I think) to try as well.

There is a thread posted in General Muzzleloading with a chart for powder volume/shot weight. 110 grain setting will give you about 1 1/2 ounces of shot.
I'm a big fan of Hevi-Shot in modern shotgun shells (other than the price), but be aware that it is very hard. It requires special shot cups and protective sheathing in shotshells ,even for modern guns made to shoot regular shot and steel.

 

[Zonie]

I've asked this before, but what does 1.5 ounce of shot amount to in a volumetric measurer? I'm trying to get my "special turkey choke" barrel to shoot well and I think I'm getting close, but would like to know what people are using for shot. I also purchased some Hevi-shot last year (7.5 shot I think) to try as well.

A 110 grain volumetric powder measure will contain about 1 1/2 ounces of shot.

Here's a link to the forums page that lists volumetric sizes to weights of shot.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/powder-measure-shot-loads-chart.21119/

 

[GANGGREEN]

Thanks for the info guys. As for the Hevi-shot, I'm not sure what that means for my purposes. Should I avoid shooting it from a flintlock fowler? I figured that the density would allow me a few more pellets and greater penetration and energy given that I could probably shoot 7 or 7.5 shot versus my normal load of #6 lead shot.

 

[Firelock937]

Thanks for the info guys. As for the Hevi-shot, I'm not sure what that means for my purposes. Should I avoid shooting it from a flintlock fowler? I figured that the density would allow me a few more pellets and greater penetration and energy given that I could probably shoot 7 or 7.5 shot versus my normal load of #6 lead shot.

You are correct about the 7 being very effective and containing more pellets than 6 shot. I just know that the reloading data for Hevi-shot always uses special wads to protect barrels and warns about how hard it is. That is even for modern center fire shotguns with barrels designed to withstand steel shot. I have no idea how much shooting it might take to score up a standard muzzleloading smoothbore.

 

[Eric Krewson]

1 1/2 oz of #6 shot comes up to the 110 gr line on my powder measure.

 

[TGJaeger]

1 1/2 oz of #6 shot comes up to the 110 gr line on my powder measure.

About the same on mine - couple more pellets gets it there.

 

[TGJaeger]

I tried several different loads at the 50 yard line to see just what would happen. Briefly put, the results were not impressive. Skycheif's load development was tried and still nothing impressive as compared to my Browning Gold 20ga with full choke and 3" Fiocchi Premium load. I decided to end the range session with a BP magnum load of my own making. Two ounces of #6 and 100gr of Swiss 3f = won't be doing that again.

 

[Rató:rats]

A 110 grain volumetric powder measure will contain about 1 1/2 ounces of shot.

Here's a link to the forums page that lists volumetric sizes to weights of shot.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/powder-measure-shot-loads-chart.21119/

In that chart is he using ffg grains?

 

[Skychief]

Eric, your photograph had me scanning the woods for a red, white, and blue head!!! Beautiful.

 

[Eric Krewson]

He was coming in quiet, he never gobbled, I heard him walking in the leaves but I hadn't seen him yet. I moved my gun barrel about a foot to the left to line up with the sound, he must have seen it, silence, he slipped away.

 

[megasupermagnum]

Switch to Fg powder. Going from FFg to Fg produced the most significant improvement of any change I have done thus far in my turkey guns.

 

[Brokennock]

I've mentioned in my posts about testing this load and the photo essay on loading it that the devil is in the details.
I am convinced there is more to why this works than just the heavily lubbed "cushion wad" on top of the shot.
When I simply placed said lubed wad over the shot I saw little to no pattern improvement. My usual load is powder, then 2 thin "overshot" cards, a lubed felt wad, shot (whether in an paper shot cup/cartridge or not), topped with 2 more overshot cards. When I removed the wads between powder and shot and only used one "nitro card" as prescribed in SkyChief's proprietary instructions, between powder and shot, much improved. I once forgot the thin overshot card between shot and lubed wad on top, pattern deteriorated, but still was better (more even) than most "normal" loads, just not as tight as the true SkyChief load.
I have noticed that those who describe I'm detail their loading process in trying this, and claim it doesn't work, have always deviated somewhere from the exact SkyChief instructions. I have found any deviation reduces its effectiveness. Even just the misplacement of a thin card.

Because just simply placing a lubed cushion wad doesn't produce even close to the same improvement as the full Skychief load followed correctly, I feel that there is more to why this works than the placement of that wad.
I do think the "drafting" theory has some merit, as well as the well lubed bore ahead of the shot. But, it would seem what is under, or not under, the shot plays a roll.

If you are not getting results with this, go back to the original recipe and follow it closely. Check your shot and powder measurements/proportions. You shouldn't need a ton of shot, but slightly more shot than powder by volume is good.

 

[NorthFork]

Yes @Brokennock is 100% correct. ANY deviation from the official SkyChief load recipe will result in poor results, sometimes worse than a traditional 'square load'. The only two loads I bother with is @George paper wadding/tow load and the SkyChief load. Nothing else is needed. The George load for up close to midrange and the SkyChief load for midrange to far out. I can get repeatable duck killing patterns at 50 yards using bismuth shot and the SkyChief loading method out of a cylinder bore. It works.

 

[Rató:rats]

Is the thin overshot card necessary? It may be my Scots frugality talking but couldn’t I just ram the lubed fibre wad on top of the shot column?
Also would three or four .062 vegetable fibre wads glued together be a reasonable substitute for a proper fibre wad?


Stephen

 

[Rató:rats]

I've mentioned in my posts about testing this load and the photo essay on loading it that the devil is in the details.
I am convinced there is more to why this works than just the heavily lubbed "cushion wad" on top of the shot.
When I simply placed said lubed wad over the shot I saw little to no pattern improvement. My usual load is powder, then 2 thin "overshot" cards, a lubed felt wad, shot (whether in an paper shot cup/cartridge or not), topped with 2 more overshot cards. When I removed the wads between powder and shot and only used one "nitro card" as prescribed in SkyChief's proprietary instructions, between powder and shot, much improved. I once forgot the thin overshot card between shot and lubed wad on top, pattern deteriorated, but still was better (more even) than most "normal" loads, just not as tight as the true SkyChief load.
I have noticed that those who describe I'm detail their loading process in trying this, and claim it doesn't work, have always deviated somewhere from the exact SkyChief instructions. I have found any deviation reduces its effectiveness. Even just the misplacement of a thin card.

Because just simply placing a lubed cushion wad doesn't produce even close to the same improvement as the full Skychief load followed correctly, I feel that there is more to why this works than the placement of that wad.
I do think the "drafting" theory has some merit, as well as the well lubed bore ahead of the shot. But, it would seem what is under, or not under, the shot plays a roll.

If you are not getting results with this, go back to the original recipe and follow it closely. Check your shot and powder measurements/proportions. You shouldn't need a ton of shot, but slightly more shot than powder by volume is good.

Ahh I think Broken answered my question.
I’m trying to avoid ordering any ML supplies from the states until the holidays are over. Like everyone else I’m looking to tighten up my pattern. Right now I’m loading powder, leather wad, shot, lubed nitro card overshot. K.I.S.S. The pattern is so-so but these are what I have to work with at present.
Do any of you guys punch out your own thin overshot cards? What paper do you like? Cigarette packs? Cereal boxes? Children’s letters to Santa?
All help much appreciated.

 

[Brokennock]

Ahh I think Broken answered my question.
I’m trying to avoid ordering any ML supplies from the states until the holidays are over. Like everyone else I’m looking to tighten up my pattern. Right now I’m loading powder, leather wad, shot, lubed nitro card overshot. K.I.S.S. The pattern is so-so but these are what I have to work with at present.
Do any of you guys punch out your own thin overshot cards? What paper do you like? Cigarette packs? Cereal boxes? Children’s letters to Santa?
All help much appreciated.

Just for grins, and the sake of experimentation, I'm thinking of a few things to try with your available components.
1. A second leather wad between shot and lubed nitro card.
2. Try 2 lubes nitro cards (I'm not sure one has the same weight and mass as the heavily lubbed cushion wad)
3. Dry nitro wad between powder and shot. This is part of the original SkyChief formula, and made a big difference in my results. It does make reloads tougher however.
4. On the theory that the well lubed bore ahead of the charge is part of what improves the pattern, maybe, swab the bore with more lube after loading.
Be careful with this one. If you use a tight fitting lubed patch on a jag the suction created could in theory lift load components as you withdraw it from the bore. I sometimes swab with some lube ahead of a loaded charge if I know I'm going to hunt in wet weather. In either use a patch on a worn out bore brush so air can get through and around it, or one of those wooly bore mops.
5. Punch some cards out of cereal boxes, shirt cardboard, cigarette packs, etc. Replace leather wad with these.
6. Lube the leather

Let us know what you find.

 

[Rató:rats]

Just for grins, and the sake of experimentation, I'm thinking of a few things to try with your available components.
1. A second leather wad between shot and lubed nitro card.
2. Try 2 lubes nitro cards (I'm not sure one has the same weight and mass as the heavily lubbed cushion wad)
3. Dry nitro wad between powder and shot. This is part of the original SkyChief formula, and made a big difference in my results. It does make reloads tougher however.
4. On the theory that the well lubed bore ahead of the charge is part of what improves the pattern, maybe, swab the bore with more lube after loading.
Be careful with this one. If you use a tight fitting lubed patch on a jag the suction created could in theory lift load components as you withdraw it from the bore. I sometimes swab with some lube ahead of a loaded charge if I know I'm going to hunt in wet weather. In either use a patch on a worn out bore brush so air can get through and around it, or one of those wooly bore mops.
5. Punch some cards out of cereal boxes, shirt cardboard, cigarette packs, etc. Replace leather wad with these.
6. Lube the leather

Let us know what you find.

Awesome thanks!
Lots of interesting ideas. I’ll be getting out with the 20ga tomorrow and I’ll report back with results. High of 32 tomorrow but that’s picnic weather in Canada.

 

[smoothshooter]

I wonder. Could it be that the big oil soaked fiber wad plows a hole thru the air, protecting the shot from the air blast that would cause them to disperse for 5 or so yards downrange? Then, when it gets deflected to the side by the blast of wind, the shot column starts to open up to produce those nice, tight patterns at 20 or more yards?

That's about the only thing that makes sense to me.
There's no denying that Sky Ckief's heavy fiber wad on top of the shot does improve things.

I think the cushion wad dispenses a bunch of new oil in the bore as it accelerates forward, reducing friction and the attendant damage to the pellets that are actually in contact with the bore.

 

[Timber Wolf]

Do any of you guys punch out your own thin overshot cards? What paper do you like? Cigarette packs? Cereal boxes? Children’s letters to Santa?
All help much appreciated.

I have punched over-shot cards out of empty shotgun shell boxes. I felt it was an appropriate recycle.

 

[PhilRich]

What exactly is the Skychief load? What wads are used where? Thanks.