Antique Firearms

[Notchy Bob]

I am sorry… I misunderstood @Pukatea Bay Boy ‘s question. I would agree with @Auldjin in that no post-1865 section should be needed. Discussions of those later guns can be posted elsewhere on the Muzzleloading Forum, as they have been.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[Gordoncourtney]

I am sorry… I misunderstood @Pukatea Bay Boy ‘s question. I would agree with @Auldjin in that no post-1865 section should be needed. Discussions of those later guns can be posted elsewhere on the Muzzleloading Forum, as they have been.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

My .35 muzzle loading double rifle was classified as late 1886 by experts at Holts auction. Unknown maker

 

[GREENSWLDE]

Was Holt's "Expert" There when it was made?? How was he so acurate to within 2 months or so?? O.D.

 

[Jubilado]

There is an interesting class of old muzzle loader that may have been overlooked in this discussion. In wealthier economies, shooters moved from flintlock to percussion to cartridge as soon as they became available but in poorer societies, the market for muzzle loading weapons continued into the 20th century.
have pistols from the 18th and 19th centuries but my flintlock long gun was made in Birmingham for the "African Trade" in the early part of the 20th century! My percussion double shotgun was also a 20th century weapon and was in use in Russia as recently as 1942. Antique or not, I find them amusing niche items. I wonder if other forum members have encountered such oddities?

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Was Holt's "Expert" There when it was made?? How was he so acurate to within 2 months or so?? O.D.

Ha ha. Holts have to catalogue thousands of guns at the time I was looking at a Pedrosoli double ML .500. But preferred an original. This one was at holts Alex I guess put 1886 as it looked a very good repro even I think the auctioneer was bidding me up and only stopped at £1600 ( that’s £2200 buyers premium) I was just too exited and he knew it. Beware show little enthusiasm when bidding , but I lost a double that way This .35 double. is mint very well The problem of dating. Black powder proof marks is they remained unchanged at Birmingham till around 1954 I think it was made in around 1926 by the midland gun company as it is engraved “grand Prix gun works Birmingham “ the other barrel “ Gran Prix long range rifle “. Flip sights to 400 yards Proof marks crown over BP and BV are of little help as they ran to 1954

Who knows I’ll leave that with you Bit warmer and wet from London happy Xmas

 

[Loyalist Dave]

There is an interesting class of old muzzle loader that may have been overlooked in this discussion. In wealthier economies, shooters moved from flintlock to percussion to cartridge as soon as they became available but in poorer societies, the market for muzzle loading weapons continued into the 20th century.
have pistols from the 18th and 19th centuries but my flintlock long gun was made in Birmingham for the "African Trade" in the early part of the 20th century! My percussion double shotgun was also a 20th century weapon and was in use in Russia as recently as 1942. Antique or not, I find them amusing niche items. I wonder if other forum members have encountered such oddities?

The problem with this is then that makes India made copies of antiques acceptable in this forum if we change from "made in 1865 or earlier" to "resembles the technology" of 1865 or earlier. IF it's a post 1865 gun and especially if it's a 20th or 21st century made gun, no matter the ignition system used, then it would not qualify.

LD

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Ha ha. Holts have to catalogue thousands of guns at the time I was looking at a Pedrosoli double ML .500. But preferred an original. This one was at holts Alex I guess put 1886 as it looked a very good repro even I think the auctioneer was bidding me up and only stopped at £1600 ( that’s £2200 buyers premium) I was just too exited and he knew it. Beware show little enthusiasm when bidding , but I lost a double that way This .35 double. is mint very well The problem of dating. Black powder proof marks is they remained unchanged at Birmingham till around 1954 I think it was made in around 1926 by the midland gun company as it is engraved “grand Prix gun works Birmingham “ the other barrel “ Gran Prix long range rifle “. Flip sights to 400 yards Proof marks crown over BP and BV are of little help as they ran to 1954

Who knows I’ll leave that with you Bit warmer and wet from London happy Xmas

I wanted to add/correct or add crown over BP or BV only came out in 1904 till 1954 so this clearly puts my .35 ml post 1904 and before 1904 prior to that little changed in the stamp. So my .35 is not 1885 but in a reproduction time after 1904 bern pondering for a couple of hours

 

[64Springer]

Are these antiques to be 100% original?

No lock rework. No finish rework. No replacement parts. Etc.

How many and which original parts constitute an allowable antique firearm?

 

[Gianki]

Ciao a tutti e buon anno dall'Italia, fucile scozzese che è stato utilizzato nella vostra guerra civile dai documenti di accompagnamento, acquistato da un collezionista 37 anni fa. Ogni tanto lo faccio fumare di nuovo

 

[Jason holgate]

I like the idea

 

[Relic shooter]

There is an interesting class of old muzzle loader that may have been overlooked in this discussion. In wealthier economies, shooters moved from flintlock to percussion to cartridge as soon as they became available but in poorer societies, the market for muzzle loading weapons continued into the 20th century.
have pistols from the 18th and 19th centuries but my flintlock long gun was made in Birmingham for the "African Trade" in the early part of the 20th century! My percussion double shotgun was also a 20th century weapon and was in use in Russia as recently as 1942. Antique or not, I find them amusing niche items. I wonder if other forum members have encountered such oddities?

~DIFFICULT TO PUT RULES & BOUNDRIES ON TRADITIONS~
Good point Jubliado, I've also seen & owned a few post 1865 mfg. ML flintlock & percussion firearms.
Some post 1865 rifles I've examined during my 60 years of collecting & shooting original muzzleloading firearms were of much lower quality & mostly Belgian proofed & obviously made for hunting in poorer nations.
Some were very high quality English proofed rifles & pistols made for wealthy Europeans & Americans who preferred to continue hunting or target shooting with muzzleloaders.
The members on this & other ML forums serve as classic examples, we continue to keep the history & skills of our muzzleloading era & culture alive.
Relic shooter

 

[Relic shooter]

Ciao a tutti e buon anno dall'Italia, fucile scozzese che è stato utilizzato nella vostra guerra civile dai documenti di accompagnamento, acquistato da un collezionista 37 anni fa. Ogni tanto lo faccio fumare di nuovo

Have no idea what Gianki said but thats a very nice vintage rifle !
Relic shooter

 

[Uncle Miltie]

I never understood the 1865 cutoff. The most accurate muzzleloading guns were made after that time. The greatest time in long range shooting occurred at that time as well. The high- water mark of muzzleloading is missed by that cutoff.

 

[deerstalkert]

Ciao a tutti e buon anno dall'Italia, fucile scozzese che è stato utilizzato nella vostra guerra civile dai documenti di accompagnamento, acquistato da un collezionista 37 anni fa. Ogni tanto lo faccio fumare di nuovo

translation.
Hello everyone and Happy New Year from Italy, Scottish rifle that was used in your civil war by accompanying documents, purchased by a collector 37 years ago. Every now and then I smoke it again

 

[Gordoncourtney]

This 1858 percussion muzzleloading Pritchett rifle is an antique -

View attachment 175587

This 1980 percussion muzzle-loading Parker-Hale 'Whitworth'-style rifle is NOT an antique.

View attachment 175588

I some ways we should include reproduction stuff. Sitting in the hot bath thinking My reasoning is reproduction guns and rifle are machine made and I suggest the most accurate. Without them how can we compare the hand made guns accuracy ie
do the handmade guns shoot worse or equally with reproduction guns. Back in the late 1960s. A mole Ben, a dear friend, won the running deer at Bisely uk for modern sporting rifles. He was shooting a home made flintlock American style long rifle .45 barrel new from Belgium original flint lock action. 1840 Maple stock. He died at 84 a few years back
I gather there is a Mole Ben trophy at ml
Bisley hut

 

[TDM]

translation.
Hello everyone and Happy New Year from Italy, Scottish rifle that was used in your civil war by accompanying documents, purchased by a collector 37 years ago. Every now and then I smoke it again

Mamma Mia!

 

[Gianki]

Hello everyone, my Charleville of the Napoleonic period still fully functional today. Unfortunately his original wand is missing but I use a Pedersoli replica then modified in diameter as it is larger

 

[ResearchPress]

I gather there is a Mole Ben trophy at ml
Bisley hut

The Mole Benn Flask is a competition in the MLAGB National Pistol Championships, two targets each of ten shots all to count (two details of twenty minutes each). Original pistols only.
MLAGB no longer have at hut at Bisley, and the National Pistol Championships are held at the Association ranges at Wedgnock, Warwick.

David

 

[springfield art]

I can get behind that!!

View attachment 170377View attachment 170378View attachment 170379View attachment 170380View attachment 170384

Here's my Goulcher locked .375 long rifle. Not marked. Not real sure of an exact date. I'll say 1850's. The bridle screws are hand forged, and the tumbler has been repaired at some point in history. The trigger guard is soldered together from multiple pieces. It has a tapered ramrod with a hand forged iron patch worm on the small end. She's a CHONKER at 10lb 7oz. Still shoots great! There's just something about a plain jane rifle with a good walnut stock that gives me a tingle.

45gr 3f
.40 felt OP wad
.017 patch
.360 rb

I just saw a Golcher marked half-stock at a swap meet; very heavy barrel and small bore! It was not in the condition of yours, but we chatted that someone could restore it with a new re-bore by Bobby Hoyt!

 

[Gordoncourtney]

The Mole Benn Flask is a competition in the MLAGB National Pistol Championships, two targets each of ten shots all to count (two details of twenty minutes each). Original pistols only.
MLAGB no longer have at hut at Bisley, and the National Pistol Championships are held at the Association ranges at Wedgnock, Warwick.

David

Yes I gather my brother , Andy, national ??? Secretary , got the Bisley hut together. In my younger days, 1973 they met on a local pub. Last time I went to Fultons the old hut inside was still derelict since 2013 when lease expired Not seen Andy in years, leave it at that, Mole was my oldest friend from 1963 pistol days he was at my place a couple of days before he passed, must have been 86 Enjoy