Any caliber too small?

[410-er]

Plain and simple.Nothing is going to live with a hole in its heart or lungs.Shot placement is more important.

 

[shootemup]

I think tg, arctichomesteader and 410-er just summed it up quite nicely. :thumbsup:

 

[Supercracker]

Plain and simple.Nothing is going to live with a hole in its heart or lungs.Shot placement is more important.

an arrow is what, about .28.

 

[rawhide]

alot of the small bore mls. don't have the punch of the bigger ones like 50-58. for one. I agree shot placement is the key. seen my cuzin shoot a elk and it run a good 200 plus yards went up to it it ran another 200. he just nicked one lung. with a .50 conical. we did finaly get it. ok as for modern rifles they shoot much difernt... a 308 win in 180 grain (this is my pet load for mine) dose 2500 fps. and 2000 or so fbs. at the muzzle. at 100 yards it still dose 1700 fps and has close to 12-1300 fbs. my .54 dose around 2000 fps and 1800 fbs at the muzzle at 100 yards only doing 1000 fps and only has 900 fbs. or less this is why with modren you can use smaller bored guns to get the job done a deer takes 500 fbs. to kill it as a rule I say that lightly. because I seen my grandad shoot deer at 50 yards with a 22 in the back field. as for elk 1000 fps. hope I helped ya out.

 

[Robby]

Nice shot Super!
Robby

 

[Little Wattsy]

Plain and simple.Nothing is going to live with a hole in its heart or lungs.Shot placement is more important.

an arrow is what, about .28.

ACTUALLY .. A target tip is about .28 cal but THAT broadhead sliiced a hole at about 2 bore. :wink:

 

[Supercracker]

Oops, Not me, a buddy of mine. Just trying to illustrate the point.


Didn't think to add that

 

[Little Wattsy]

Thats "OK" its still a purty picture!! :thumbsup:

 

[rabjr]

Plain and simple.Nothing is going to live with a hole in its heart or lungs.Shot placement is more important.

Well yes it's nice to wrap it all up and place it in a neat little box like that but the problem is finding it. I know I've heard and seen people post here that when they heart shoot an animal, it pretty much dosan't take a step, just waves a white flag and says, ok ya got me I'm all done and keels over dead on the spot. That has never been the case whenever I've seen or had to deal with heart shot animals by friends. They usually run like hell and don't like to bleed for a long time. I have seen balls, maxi-balls, centerfires and arrows through the heart and yes it kills them but it wasn't always an easy task to fine them after their mad dash. Especially in thick cover and no blood sign. I must confess though to a shot a couple years ago, having a pretty good open area around me, I intentionally arrowed a small fork horn in the heart to watch it's reaction and how far it went. Having confidence I would see it drop. It was also a chance to give a cousin a tracking lesson, well I did see him fold up as he only went 40 yards to my surprise. That was the first deer I ever saw heart shot that dropped within 75 yards. We found not one drop of blood until about 10 feet from where he dropped.

That shot may work for some but I'll pass. I'd much rather put a ball through both lungs and take his air away. Most double lunged animals in my experiance don't travel as far as heart shot animals. :v

 

[Supercracker]

hmmm, I never really thought about it before, but when hunting with the longbow having a tracking job after the shot was just a forgone conclusion. There WAS going to be one, the only question was how far.

I'd much rather put a ball through both lungs and take his air away. Most double lunged animals in my experiance don't travel as far as heart shot animals. :v

FWIW, I've been charged by a pig that had been double lunged.

 

[rabjr]

I don't hunt pigs I hunt Whitetails. But even if I did, sitting 9' up in the back of a CATV, they can charge away as I'm calmly reloading. :wink: :v

 

[Robby]

I agree Swampy, a double lunger is going down before a heart shot animal, there's always exceptions, but its a safe bet.

 

[roundball]

North Carolina whitetails must be different.
My shots are 35-50 yard heart shots in the woods on standing deer I've stopped by whistling...so far every one has fallen in sight of me...usually a few body lengths and down, worst case a 30-40 yard sprint before crashing into a tree

 

[rabjr]

Well I'm happy for you but that just hasn't been the case with the majority I've seen up here. I double lung a deer most are betewwn 25 to 50 yards from where I shot them. Thats just not the case with heart shot deer I've seen with the exception of the one I mentioned. Most went anywhere from 75 to 120 yards and it usually took 50 to 75 yards before you found a drop of blood.

 

[texcl]

I agree that a double lunged deer tends to go down quicker than a heart shot deer with no lung damage, although I've seen some heart shot deer fall over dead so it depends, the yearling I shot last year with my .58 virginia was shot right through the heart and it ran at least 80 yards with it's nose touchin the ground the whole way.I have to say I have seen a deer shot with a .36 and it did double lung it and exit the deer. It also passed between the ribs, I doubt it would have exited if it had hit one that would make tracking a chore. Will it work absolutally is it the best choice no. Would I use it, yes under the right circumstances I would, and I would also use it on turkeys which rubs people wrong too. Just don't take any Texas heart shots.

 

[Kentucky45]

Geography figures into this in my opinion. A Texas deer is generally rather small compared to, say, a big Vermont deer. I'd be willing to use something like a .36 on those tiny deer down there but I'd want something bigger here, .40 or bigger.

Very good point. The biggest deer I ever killed was in Missouri back in the '70s. A 5 year old breeding spike buck that weighed a little over 200lbs. The local game warden was happy to see that I had taken him. That was a BIG deer to me, but small in comparison to deer in some other states. I've killed good bucks in the hill country around Austin and Llano, Texas that were in the 100 pound range. I killed a full grown doe near Oatmeal, Texas that weighed 60 pounds. There were some nice bucks in that area in the '80s in the 85-95lb weight class. East Texas deer weigh more, as do deep South Texas deer. But still not in the heavy weight ranges of some other states. Caliber size is definitely a factor when you consider the weight class of deer.

 

[rabjr]

I'll tell ya what, today was my first experiance with the .36 cal and I am impressed. I think backed with 40gr's at least it is a 40 yard gun on deer all day long in the right hands. Having said that, I myself wouldn't use it because it limits you to much for my taste. But what I saw, it certainly is capable within reason.

 

[Little Wattsy]

Well I'm happy for you but that just hasn't been the case with the majority I've seen up here. I double lung a deer most are betewwn 25 to 50 yards from where I shot them. Thats just not the case with heart shot deer I've seen with the exception of the one I mentioned. Most went anywhere from 75 to 120 yards and it usually took 50 to 75 yards before you found a drop of blood.

I have heard and believe that a animal can "live" for 7 to 8 seconds after being heart shot. A deer can do the 100 yard dash in that time frame easily enough.

After 30-sum years of hunting it NEVER ceases to amaze me at how "TUFF" wild animals can be; going down hard, running far, etc with a chunk of lead that would totally wipe out a human. I have also seen some critters (big and small) drop like a sack of turds too... I usually assume that those took a serious hit to the central nervous system.

Anyway a spooked deer can easily run that 75 to 100 yards heart shot alot "easier" then they can with no lungs.

 

[Dave K]

Yes, a deer has roughly that long before going down. It takes 2 things to take down a deer and in both cases it comes down to the brain. If you take away the pump(heart), that send oxygen enriched to the brain, the brain will just plain shut down because of lack oxygen. The same thing happens to the lungs. If the lungs no longer have the ability to absorb oxygen, all the pumping in the world won't keep the deer alive. Even if you take out the liver or femoral artery, blood loss in the system is too low to maintain the brain with oxygen. Though a liver or femoral artery takes longer for the animal to go down, it is still very affective.

 

[roundball]

I also think based upon the angle of the shot and/or any possible internal deflection, many 'double lung' shots might only be a single lung...OR...if high up on the lungs, even a double lung can allow a deer to cover a lot of ground before the lungs fill up with blood and they suffocate.