Any caliber too small?

[rabjr]

KENTUCKY45...I have watched this thread for some time now with both amusement and sorrow...

One of the problems with these kind of wide open hypothetical sort of thread questions is that they rarely come with parameters to focus answers so that answers have to be somewhat general in nature.

As a counter for your 'amusement & sorrow' in reading the answers to date, given that no such qualifiers were included in the original post...such as the 35 yard chip shot your whole post is based upon...speaking for myself then, I made it clear that my reply was based upon referring to calibers as general purpose small game and/or deer calibers able to handle the full range of typical / possible hunting conditions one might encounter in a days hunt.

I don't think any of the replies in this thread were married to short concrete distances like your mere 35 yard chip shot so your 'amusement & sorrow' with the rest of the replies would seem somewhat "amusing" to the rest of us.

Yeah, I'm not sure where he's coming from saying that. In just my limited experiance using it the other day I conceded it was probably a good 40 yard gun in the right hands. I would not reccommend it to anyone nor would I personally use it but I can see where some who know what they are doing could use it effectively.

 

[rabjr]

I will try and stay with the discussion topic "any caliber too small". The question can easily spin in to an ethics discussion. The ethical hunter will know his and his weapon's limits. The "what ifs" can be greatly reduced but the weapons usually has little to do with the "what if". More often it is the hunter making a poor decision, the weapon does not think and reason. My best example are discussions about buckshot. In VA many counties only allow buckshot, no rifle and in some cases no muzzleloaders either. Based on these limits hunters have adapted there hunting style to harvest deer effectively using buckshot. So when I read or hear that buckshot is not a good choice I get a good laugh. I see about 100 deer a year killed with buckshot. If you know your limitations then you can decide on the weapon. So my vote would be no caliber is too small, just people making poor decisions about the proper caliber and weapon.

Well you keep on laughing. You answered very well the first part of your post but seem to have forgotten theres just as many idiots out there then there are ethical hunters. I have no problem with guys who use buckshot within it's limitations but far to many don't. And I've found a hell of lot of old buckshot when butchering deer over the years and seen it's crippling effect an animal had to live with until someone who could shoot put it down. :shake:

 

[Little Wattsy]

I will try and stay with the discussion topic "any caliber too small". The question can easily spin in to an ethics discussion. The ethical hunter will know his and his weapon's limits. The "what ifs" can be greatly reduced but the weapons usually has little to do with the "what if". More often it is the hunter making a poor decision, the weapon does not think and reason. My best example are discussions about buckshot. In VA many counties only allow buckshot, no rifle and in some cases no muzzleloaders either. Based on these limits hunters have adapted there hunting style to harvest deer effectively using buckshot. So when I read or hear that buckshot is not a good choice I get a good laugh. I see about 100 deer a year killed with buckshot. If you know your limitations then you can decide on the weapon. So my vote would be no caliber is too small, just people making poor decisions about the proper caliber and weapon.

Well you keep on laughing. You answered very well the first part of your post but seem to have forgotten theres just as many idiots out there as there are ethical hunters. I have no problem with guys who use buckshot within it's limitations but far to many don't. And I've found a hell of lot of old buckshot when butchering deer over the years and seen it's crippling effect an animal had to live with until someone who could shoot put it down. :shake:

Well said Swampy... Someone mentioned earlier taht often the proponets of small calibers (and Ill include buckshot) have egos to pad.

When in doubt Im more in favor of letting someone make a poor decision then not in the name of Liberty BUT... When you say that "YOU" can kill a deer just fine with a .177 pellet gun when you "do it right and hit it in the right spot" then you open it to all others in your zone to try and do the same thing.

 

[Kentucky45]

Someone mentioned that this is a sticky subject and question and there is no real answer to my original question "small caliber size for deer". Another said they don't like to get involved in this subject because there is basically no perfect answer. It's been discussed before. Yes it has, over and over and over. And every time someone discusses it whether here, at your local gun shop, or deer camp, every possible opinion comes up about how the deer might be standing, weather, shot placement, hole size, bullet speed, safe shot distance and who know what else. And all of that is necessary and is what makes it a great subject and is why it should be discussed over and over and over. All those things matter and people should give their views and opinions as long as the topic stays close to what it originally was. Someone now or someday, while reading this forum, will learn something about this subject that will help them be a better hunter and sportsman. Maybe not me, maybe not you, but someone that has never shot, owned, or hunted with a small caliber black powder rifle will read something that will click in his or her brain and help that person decide whether a small caliber ball is the right thing for them to use on deer sized game -- or not. Some here have killed larger game with small caliber bp rifles. Some haven't. I like hearing what both sides have to say. I've read allot of things on some of these forums that are junk, but some good subjects have occasionally changed my opinions. I'm not too old to learn. Even though it may be the same old discussion again, this is an important subject. Someone we haven't heard from may actually teach us something. And if we don't want to read about it or write down our opinions again, we can always go watch President Obama on TV again. See there, we have choices in America. I have my thoughts on small caliber size, I've written it in earlier posts, but you don't have to agree with me because my wife told me I don't know everything.

 

[John Wasmuth]

I shot deer with a .32, catch flack for it here, dont care. It aint for everybody.

 

[Bretwalda]

Roundball, I have been on this forum long enough to respect the opinions of most of you who have posted here. Each of us hunts under different circumstances and for different reasons. I see my way as no more correct than anyone elses...but let me tell you the rest of the story:

Kentucky45 stated at the close of his opening topic, "Do any of you shoot 36 cal or smaller and how do you feel about the smaller cal rifle for deer hunting". I was honestly giving my opinion as to what I felt the merits and limitations were of using a 36 cal or smaller rifle to hunt deer.

I expressed 'sorrow' because of the judgemental "bashing" that has to go on, everytime this subject comes up. Mnay on here are unwilling to accept anothers way of hunting is as good and true as their own method; some seem to have an ego that they like to strut about themseves(I am not saying this towards you!!) As I stated in my post, I am a former longbow hunter but do to an accident and the sustaining injuries I am no longer able to participate in that sport. But this debate has the same stench of the longbow vs. compound debate that raged on all of the time when I was in that circle of hunting.

I am 'amused' because if you have never used a small cal ML on deer, how can you truly assertain its' performance on the animal? You certainly can have an opinion, but you have no true knowledge and yet many speak as though they have empiracle data on this issue.

You stated that mine was a "chip shot" and you know what...you are exactly right on that one...That is what it is supossed to be isn't it? If we are to cleanly and humanly harvest the animal there should no doubt about our ability to complete the process as quickly and as certain as possible. I know that by using a small caliber and limiting myself to such a short range I can achieve that "chip shot" time after time, with as close to a 100% success ratio as I can get. That is because I know my limits and my guns limits. If was using a larger caliber I may be tempted to take a 50 yard (or longer) shot at a exception deer walking past my stand. Because with a large caliber even if I am "off a little" or the animal turns I can bulldoze through whatever angle the animal presents itself for. Maybe I can and maybe I can't...but I am not starving and so if the "perfect shot" does not present itself to me...no big deal as I have had a nice day in the woods.

I know that I do do a good job of taking my game humanly and fairly under true sporting conditions; if I choose to limit myself to a "chip shot" range of 35 yards and use a small caliber gun, that is legal where I am hunting then I have done nothing wrong...no matter how you feel or what your opinion is.

 

[rabjr]

Excellent post, you obviously know your limitations and the calibers limitations. I have absolutely no problem with that. My problems have always been with guys who don't and I feel sorry for the animal because far tomany don't. Spend some time in a gun shop during hunting season and some of the things you end up hearing will make your skin crawl....really makes you wonder sometimes.

With my limited exposure to the .36, I have no doubt in the hands of someone like you it can be very effective within the limited range you have determined as max range for it. :v

 

[Bretwalda]

Thank you for you kind words and support!!! :hatsoff: