Any caliber too small?

[Little Wattsy]

I also think based upon the angle of the shot and/or any possible internal deflection, many 'double lung' shots might only be a single lung...OR...if high up on the lungs, even a double lung can allow a deer to cover a lot of ground before the lungs fill up with blood and they suffocate.

Now THAT leaves a VERY Poor blood trail; Waiting for the chest cavity to fill up bere the hole starts to drop some bleed.
:wink:

 

[Supercracker]

I also think based upon the angle of the shot and/or any possible internal deflection, many 'double lung' shots might only be a single lung...OR...if high up on the lungs, even a double lung can allow a deer to cover a lot of ground before the lungs fill up with blood and they suffocate.

Now THAT leaves a VERY Poor blood trail; Waiting for the chest cavity to fill up bere the hole starts to drop some bleed.
:wink:

It's been my experience with lung shots (arras) that every time they try to breath it blows a blood mist out of the hole(s) and leave a fairly good trail. It's just 2' off the ground.

 

[Dave K]

Works well with snow on the ground also. Looks like red pepper has been sprinkled.

 

[rabjr]

Works well with snow on the ground also. Looks like red pepper has been sprinkled.

Yep seen lung spray more than once in the snow.

 

[Supercracker]

Works well with snow on the ground also. Looks like red pepper has been sprinkled.

what is this "snow" you speak of?

 

[Robby]

what is this "snow" you speak of? :rotf: :rotf:
When I was a Fort Polk it snowed. Some of those good ole boys had never seen it, cept fer movies, They didn't like it!
Robby

 

[Dave K]

Here is snow. This is more than a double lung shot. :grin:

 

[rabjr]

Here is snow. This is more than a double lung shot. :grin:

Now thats what I'm talkin about. :thumbsup:

 

[rabjr]

Works well with snow on the ground also. Looks like red pepper has been sprinkled.

what is this "snow" you speak of?

Supercracker, just start walking North. :haha:

 

[Kentucky45]

Please, the original topic was about caliber size for deer hunting. Thanks

 

[Supercracker]

sorry.

 

[Dave K]

Yes, you are right. That is a deer at the end of that trail and the ball was placed where it mattered. It makes no difference to the game if the hunter is able to place it where it counts and of course it is legal. Any cal. will work, it is shot placement that rules the day. :thumbsup: The topic has no answer, except to the skill of the hunter and laws we must abide by. I remember being involved with a bullet discussion where a hunter complained about the expansion of the bullet he recovered from his deer. The bottom line is, where did the bullet fail? The bullet was retrieved from the dead deer! What was the bullet supposed to do, besides harvest the deer? You can see, I didn't mention cal. here either.

The results and the trail to the deer would probably have looked the same regardless if it was a 32 cal. or a 62 cal., the important thing is where the ball was placed. This happens to have been a 50cal. rd. ball.

 

[Little Wattsy]

Yes, you are right. That is a deer at the end of that trail and the ball was placed where it mattered. It makes no difference to the game if the hunter is able to place it where it counts and of course it is legal. Any cal. will work, it is shot placement that rules the day. :thumbsup: The topic has no answer, except to the skill of the hunter and laws we must abide by. I remember being involved with a bullet discussion where a hunter complained about the expansion of the bullet he recovered from his deer. The bottom line is, where did the bullet fail? The bullet was retrieved from the dead deer! What was the bullet supposed to do, besides harvest the deer? You can see, I didn't mention cal. here either.

The results and the trail to the deer would probably have looked the same regardless if it was a 32 cal. or a 62 cal., the important thing is where the ball was placed. This happens to have been a 50cal. rd. ball.

You have, in my opinion, over simplified and under stated the situation. YES shot placement is VERY important but....

You are shooting at the deer with your self proclaimed .32 at say 50 yards... A perfect broadside shot. The deer deer turns as the shot is fired and that perfect heart shot is now faced with a shoulder bone in the way. The .62 you mention will not even recognize that a bone is in its path... The .32??? I got money that says in the right (or wrong) situation that .32 ball is deflected by that shoulder bone and thus a clean, humane kill has been thwarted.

All calibers are NOT created equal and it is somewhere between foolish and unethical to pretend that they are.

Now if you dont actually hunt "big game" and just want to punch paper or varmints well THAT is a differant discussion.

 

[Dave K]

Here we go. I said the same shot. Who said anything about a shoulder bone. Who said it was "X" number of yards. No one said that all cal. are created egual. Did I? There are and always will be "what if this or that happens. If you really want the deer dead, use a howitzer, a bazooka, whatever! You will still get a book of what if's! Please don't use cal. for an excuse for poor shooting. You need to practice what ever you use. Don't look for an argument in every post, don't read more into it than what it written, it is just a post for heavens sake. SHeeezzzzzz Oh, why do I even bother...... :surrender:

 

[Little Wattsy]

Here we go. I said the same shot. Who said anything about a shoulder bone. Who said it was "X" number of yards. No one said that all cal. are created egual. Did I? There are and always will be "what if this or that happens. If you really want the deer dead, use a howitzer, a bazooka, whatever! You will still get a book of what if's! Please don't use cal. for an excuse for poor shooting. You need to practice what ever you use. Don't look for an argument in every post, don't read more into it than what it written, it is just a post for heavens sake. SHeeezzzzzz Oh, why do I even bother...... :surrender:

Ummmm the PROBLEM with your litiny is that you can NOT control the DEER, The WEATHER, The TERRAIN, Etc! There is no such thing as the MYTHICAL "same shot". Deer are ALWAYS moving, figeting, jerking, etc.

You are correct that you NEED to practice and know your weapon but that dosnt lull the deer to sleep so you can heart shooot it at 6' with a pop gun.

Im sorry I guess this may not be so obvious to those to dont actually spend that much time in the woods.

Maybe you were talking paper cut-outs of deer... They usually pose quite nicely and will "die" when shot with a .22 every time you hit the circle. :wink:

 

[Dave K]

Actually the problem is your ability to read. Everything happens and can happen when you hunt. Good Lord, regardless of cal., the deer can jump, squat,turn, another deer go behind, get in front of,the "what ifs" are totally endless! What do you suggest? If I were you, I would quit hunting. For some, the ability to recognize a good shot when it is presented and the ability to execute it, is never mastered by some people. Of course, this is a world of no absolutes and not just in hunting. I took a huge gamble by even typing this! The power could have went off and I would have lost everything. Now, Wattsy, how are you going to reply to this list of "what ifs"? Give it up! I don't give a hoot what you shoot. A poor, executed shot is just that, regardless of cal. You cannot make up for it by always assuming something else is better. It may not be. A large cal. in the hands of a person who is intimated by it, will be a lousy shot. I shoot ALLOT of differnet tools. From of course muzzleloaders, to c-fires and archery. More shooters need to use what is best for them, then it will be best for the game. Regardless to all this blathering. If you placed any cal. of ball, where it was placed in that deer that I took (which just happened to be a 50cal.) the results and the trail would have been the same. Now, but me on your ignore list and I will do the same.

 

[duckd]

I will try and stay with the discussion topic "any caliber too small". The question can easily spin in to an ethics discussion. The ethical hunter will know his and his weapon's limits. The "what ifs" can be greatly reduced but the weapons usually has little to do with the "what if". More often it is the hunter making a poor decision, the weapon does not think and reason. My best example are discussions about buckshot. In VA many counties only allow buckshot, no rifle and in some cases no muzzleloaders either. Based on these limits hunters have adapted there hunting style to harvest deer effectively using buckshot. So when I read or hear that buckshot is not a good choice I get a good laugh. I see about 100 deer a year killed with buckshot. If you know your limitations then you can decide on the weapon. So my vote would be no caliber is too small, just people making poor decisions about the proper caliber and weapon.

 

[texcl]

Swampy, when I first built my .36 I built it as a turkey rifle (I am a Texan after all and we kill every thing with small rifles) I relized real quick that a .36 call rb with even 30grns. of 3f is very potent and destructive. What gets me is how well the ball penetrates, I tell you this much a deer would stand a better chance of surviving an arrow hit than it would a fast .36 rb. that being said I wouldn't choose a .36 as a deer rifle the deer would pretty much have to choose the rifle by chance.

 

[Bretwalda]

KENTUCKY45...I have watched this thread for some time now with both amusement and sorrow...I have (as posted here before on this forum) taken Michigan whitetail deer with a .32 PRB. I am a former longbow hunter and use a range finder to determine a 35 yard maximum shooting range arround my tree stand, the same as when I bowhunted. At this distance I can shoot a very nice tight group offhand, the .32 PRB has plenty of velocity to adequately penetrate my quarry, and the movement of the animal is minumized due to the short flight time from muzzle to the target, if this point even matters with BP guns. Shot placement is very critical...I have done both head shots and body shots, to the lungs only. The .32 has been adequate for the job at that range, as these deer expired just as quickly as others that I have taken with MLs from .45 to .58, .243CF, and 12 ga. slugs. Many who will post on this topic have never used a small caliber to kill large game and yet they feel steadfast in thier opinion that those of us who do, are "Worshipers of a lesser God". I HAVE ALWAYS SAID THAT USING A .32 MUZZLELOADER ON BIG GAME, IS NOT FOR EVERYONE!!!!!! :shake: As a longbow hunter, I learned years ago that you must wait for the both a close and perfect shot to properly and humanly harvest a deer. Tracking skills are also required to recover the harvest, as few deer are "dropped instantly" when shot with an arrow. In addition, "pass trough" shots (as many here would say are essential) are not always achieved and yet thousands of deer are taken each year with bow and arrow...without all of the fuss that occurs on this site, if you say you would like to use a .32 or .36 PRB to hunt a whitetail. I traditionally used a pure lead PRB but will be experimenting with a harded PRB to see if penetration is more effective than expansion. In case you would like to know, I use an original Perry E. Hall(Ashtabula County, Ohio ~1850) target rifle with 35 grains of Swiss FFFg and a PRB for my deer load. I "thank you for asking the question" and say you can easily use a .32 or .36 to harvest whitetails, just know the gun's limitations when you do use it! :thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

KENTUCKY45...I have watched this thread for some time now with both amusement and sorrow...

One of the problems with these kind of wide open hypothetical sort of thread questions is that they rarely come with parameters to focus answers so that answers have to be somewhat general in nature.

As a counter for your 'amusement & sorrow' in reading the answers to date, given that no such qualifiers were included in the original post...such as the 35 yard chip shot your whole post is based upon...speaking for myself then, I made it clear that my reply was based upon referring to calibers as general purpose small game and/or deer calibers able to handle the full range of typical / possible hunting conditions one might encounter in a days hunt.

I don't think any of the replies in this thread were married to short concrete distances like your mere 35 yard chip shot so your 'amusement & sorrow' with the rest of the replies would seem somewhat "amusing" to the rest of us.