I don’t think anyone is dismissing the benefits of a domestic manufacturer of black powder, but realistically, Estes, the tentative new domestic manufacturer of black powder, has yet to produce their first grain of black powder…..
Any chance we'll see powder from Goex in 2023 ?
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I'll buy real BP from any distributor willing to take my $$
We are all consumers, if Goex/Estes wants a piece of the civilian Black Powder market which is a global market, they have every ability to. They're going to make BP anyway , might as well make it available to us too.
We are all consumers, if Goex/Estes wants a piece of the civilian Black Powder market which is a global market, they have every ability to. They're going to make BP anyway , might as well make it available to us too.
I'm also skeptical of availability in the 1st quarter. Around July is probably a better bet.
SwanShot
36 Cal.
That's the way it works down here in West Oz. We take whatever we can get. The most common is WANO
joevic57
32 Cal
Why not make your own? If I can do it while living in my tenth decade....you younguns surely can too. I make my own charcoal and then my sporting grade black powder. Of course, I use a ball mill with a rubber jar and lead balls for grinding`. Make quarter pound batches for safety's sake. Must do outside a
joevic57
32 Cal
I was on Powder Inc’s website. I clicked on Goex 3f. It said available end of June. Clicked on Goex 2f & 4f, it said unavailable. So maybe their first run is going to be just 3f?
Uncle Miltie
50 Cal.
The large majority of today's muzzloading hunters continue to demand pellets and substitutes, which, as a propellant and not an explosive can be easily purchased off the shelf at their local stores. The main group who uses black powder is getting older and will continue to age until they can no longer shoot. Almost all young people interested in guns these days largely gravitate toward those resembling combat Tupperware. So along with planning and investing for current market position how would Estes forecast for future growth?
I think all states should have a season dedicated to side lock hunting only, no in-lines! Pennsylvania has a flintlock only season, which I wish Arkansas had. When black powder seasons first opened, all there was were traditional rifles.
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I think there will always be a small dedicated group of shooters who grow tired of the plastic guns and seek out new challenges. Hopefully they will move to BP and cap/flintlock firearms. After WW2, with the glut of military firearms available to the public and low prices, eventually-the 1970's-brought a return of people interested in traditional shooting. Its also possible that future gun laws will restrict shooters ability to buy and use high cap, fast firing weapons. I hope not.
t_carlyle
40 Cal
With the current rapid deindustrialization we are witnessing unfold in Germany due to their SEVERE energy crisis (not here to argue national and industrial energy reliance policies there), I would not be surprised if Wano and Schuetzen become unavailable in the near future in which case Goex will be a necessity for the domestic market.
I keep plenty of powder on hand Swiss, Olde Eynsford and some standard Goex from the 70s that was gifted to me in a large quantity and I shoot all of it. If Estes produces a good quality product I will buy from them and keep purchasing some Swiss since I have 1 gun that simply shoots it much better. I love my traditional guns and am glad that Estes is at least trying to get into the game.
Col. Batguano
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Several posts mentioned the military as the largest potential customer for real black powder. What do they use it for? Artillery shell primers don't use a whole lot, and grenades only use a small amount. Both as "starter charges" for the higher yielding main charges.
I'm not sure where the military gets their components, but with the ammo shortages we experienced in WW I, (DuPont was reluctant to get back in to the munitions business and re-assume his "Merchant of Death nickname) that's when Congress decided to set up their own arsenals for manufacturing (after the war was over). By WW II we had a bunch of them (all but Lake City are closed now). By law the military MUST now get all its' ammo from government production facilities (so they can control their own supply chain). The (non-DoD) agencies that use ammo can still get it from other sources however. Not sure how that would affect the Coast Guard as they are under DHS, but CAN be moved to DoD in the event of war.
I'm not sure where the military gets their components, but with the ammo shortages we experienced in WW I, (DuPont was reluctant to get back in to the munitions business and re-assume his "Merchant of Death nickname) that's when Congress decided to set up their own arsenals for manufacturing (after the war was over). By WW II we had a bunch of them (all but Lake City are closed now). By law the military MUST now get all its' ammo from government production facilities (so they can control their own supply chain). The (non-DoD) agencies that use ammo can still get it from other sources however. Not sure how that would affect the Coast Guard as they are under DHS, but CAN be moved to DoD in the event of war.
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Well the military invested money in the plant along with Estes so I’m pretty sure they intend to benefit from it.
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In most states the biggest impediment to carving out another gun season is the archery groups. As to your last comment, some states were so late to the party that inlines were already available when the season was created, although they weren’t yet very common.
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The Goex distributor I get the bulk of my powder from told me a month or so ago he’s expecting a shipment in February or March. Guess we’ll have to wait and see, but I do have enough on hand to go thru this year and maybe into next, if I don’t run out of primers first
Mark have you ever shot any Old Eynsford by Goex? I have Schutzen at home and Ive been shooting Swiss for a long time. Swiss was the best powder in BPCR when I shot that years ago. But the Old E is great and cleans up nicely for me. Its also very close to Swiss in velocity.
Comfortably_Numb
The Evil Mike Brooks
The "powder shortage" never affected me. I keep 90-100lbs on hand at all times. Probably 1/2 of what I have on hand is goex. And, much of that is 30-60 years old.
Col. Batguano
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Are you sure about that? I'd love to hear what details about that are available.
I thought Government equity investments could only be done with Congressional approval, and something like this would surely be a lightning rod (pun intended given the past experience with Goex) for lots of media attention. If they made or guaranteed a loan (there are lots of those programs out there) under an existing program that would be different of course.
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