anyone shooting authentic arms?

[wallgunner]

Okwaho,
I see what your saying, and don't fault you for shooting the guns you mentioned. I have a 1880's Trapdoor that I've taken out. I perfectly understand that alot of those oldtime guns were meant to be used as tools, and it is for that reason I want to shoot mine. But I collect mostly military items from the 18th century, and they do have a lot of history. They might not be the "holy grail" ( don't get me going of coconuts that migrate), but they are to me.
I guess I look at the work and craftsmanship that goes into making guns in the 18th century, and am afraid to ruin it. I would not hesitate in shooting a Civil War musket, especially if it had a Hoyt barrel, but not an 18th century piece. Rarity and condition play huge factors in the decision to shoot it. I say keep shooting if you like it, in the end we are both perserving the guns we have, either by using them as an educational tool like I do, or by showing people how truly well made the originals were by shooting them today:thumbsup:

 

[JV Puleo]

Tom.
I agree completely with your point of view and...I'm definately NOT in favor of shooting all old guns. I too have examples that I wouldn't shoot but that is usually a response to their external condition rather than a fear that they will blow up...
I once collected NE militia muskets...I had something like 60 of them but to tell the truth, "if you've shot one, you've shot them all". I still have 7 NE rifles but I've no interest in shooting all of them...
Joe Puleo

 

[halfdan]

I shoot a 19th century Suhl percussion musket. Since the gun came to me from my father-in-law, I talked with my wife before shooting it, and it turns out we have the same idea....a gun isn't a gun if it isn't being shot. On the wall it's just an object; on the range, it's a gun.

By the way, after a thorough inspection, I loaded it, strapped it to the bench and used a string to pull the trigger. That shot was the closest to the black that I've ever hit with that gun! :rotf:

 

[arquebus]

Boy, you've started quite the discussion here! I own mainly repro. muzzleloaders, but also shoot some originals, they are; M.1858 Amberg (Bavarian) .56 cal Rifle-Musket, a c.1750 Japanese Matchlock Musket that has been relined, & a Danish M.1867 11.7x51R Rolling Block.

By the way, Okwaho, it's not the Coconuts that migrate it's the African Swallow! They grab the coconuts by the husk!!

 

[robinghewitt]

You take a good overall look at the condition and make your choice on your evaluation.

I took a good overall look at a bent musket barrel I'd just bought on a restock. I estimated a date of 1640, made a lock then loaded it with shot.

Blew the touch hole, missed the clay, had a lot of fun :rotf:

 

[rabjr]

Only originals I shoot are a couple of Peabody exposed hammer guns circa 1868 that I play with.

 

[wallgunner]

, it's not the Coconuts that migrate it's the African Swallow! They grab the coconuts by the husk!!

Nothing like a good Monty Python quote to make my day! :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

 

[PreglerD]

I also take a very careful look at the most pressed parts of the gun and then start with soft loads rising up to moderate loads. I would never use a maximum load for an original.

 

[benvenuto]

anyone with any doubts about the safety of an old gun that they want to fire should have it properly tested.

Magnaflux/Xray/dye testing is cheaper than a funeral or long hospital stay

 

[texcl]

I shoot originals all the time the oldest I've used was a jeager built in 1747. I personally beleive that original military muskets tend to be the the best canadates for shooting since they are generally well built and very sturdy. I tend to stay away from the hardware store guns as they tend to be not very well made and tend to be abused.

 

[George]

I'll add that there is a dimension to shooting original guns that means a great deal to me...I'm not a hunter and I haven't shot in a match for years but I still get a genuine thrill from shooting a gun that really was there...I call it "the voice of the 18th century".

That is a sentiment I agree with very strongly. I hunt with a couple of SxS damascus percussion shotguns and an original long-barreled flint smooth rifle, and there is definitely something special about hunting with them, for me. I've killed a lot of deer with a variety of replicas over the years, but taking one with that old smooth rifle was very different. That "voice of the 18th century" added a dimension completely missing with any replica.

Spence

 

[Marc Adamchek]

Hot Damn, Mike! An old original FLINTLOCK double you don't see everyday. All my originals are percussion, my oldest (circa 1825)a Joseph Lang 18 bore double RIFLE, which is a nice thing. The damascus issue is not a concern for me if the barrels (and gun) look sound, maybe some have been recently proofed,the barrel wall thickness is comfortable for me. Lots of things to look for. But I don't like to advise someone I've never met to shoot a gun I've never seen and tell them to not worry. You definitely should learn about this subject as much as you can and frequent visits with people who genuinely know what they're talking about would be advisable; Look for a good gunsmith who knows his stuff re: damascus steel to set you straight on a possible purchase. The study of Damascus barels is a HUGE subject - they most surely can be safe, even safer than fluid steel, but other little issues can sometimes make them a dangerous gamble. But I can say I love all my damascus barreled weapons. OK, at the risk of perceived pomposity, I have to mention the following, and you will see just how much I regard my old originals. Next Sunday, Dec 19th 2010 will be the 150th anniversary of the completion of my Purdey 16 bore percussion double. Kinda neat, no? I've also got a couple other original caplock doubles, and they are definitely cool, but I've gotta tell you, truly, my BROOKS No 113 20 bore flintlock fowler holds its own and then some amidst some serious contenders! I can honestly say I will NEVER let that one go!

 

[Dave K]

Speaking of SxS flinters. I currently have 2 originals(20ga&18ga) and I do hunt with them, mostly the 20ga.It has become my favorite. I also have a contemporary one(16ga). I had three originals, but my Dad had to have it. Can't beat it, sell it to him and I can use it when ever I want. My perc. SxS's are currently old originals as well, a 12ga. and a 14ga. The 14ga. is my favorite one there. There is something about carrying the history and hunting with them old guns, that for me, can't be duplicated with a very good new gun.

Take that Purdy out on it's birthday. It will enjoy it as well. Nice gun. :grin:

Opps, I see we just crossed over to shotgun/fowlers instead of rifles. Sorry :surrender:

 

[Marc Adamchek]

Dave - Very cool to hear about some of your prized doubles. I was especially interested in hearing about your 14 bore; I'm expecting one being shipped to me from Maine, should get it this week. I'm psyched! So your 14 is your favorite? Good to hear. I'll have to see how the barrels on mine mic out before making any rash decisions about balls and wads and all the other goodies, but just for the heck of it - what size ball do you use for your 14? Apparently the 14 is a well-loved bore,as I've heard amd read comments much like your own over the years. Did I say I'm psyched?

I just read your post again and realized I still haven't touched on your sxs flinters. Now THOSE have got to be a special treat!

 

[Dphar]

currious if anyone here is shooting authentic arms built during the period cept maybe a bbl swap for safeties sake.and if you are what criteria do you look at while viewing guns?
I have interest in a period fowler and dont wann blow my self up. was the metaluragy poor? :surrender:

18th century metallurgy was dismal. A GOOD or BEST quality gun with a stub twist or such barrel would be the best choice but damascus barrels need to the carefully examined.
Its not IF it was poor its how poor was it.
A properly welded iron barrel made a best quality iron is a good barrel once its been examined and proved.
An improperly welded barrel of poor quality iron may look just like the good one. Until it fails.
Shooting flint guns in particular tends to erode the vent which will get oversized and need to be replaced. Frizzens wear and springs can break. So shooting vintage flint guns a lot is kinda counter productive. Better/safer to have a copy made.
Percussion guns have wear issues as well.

Dan

 

[Dave K]

YOu are right Dan. It is a poor idea to shoot these old guns. :wink: I will only use them a few more years and then let the next owner store them away. :surrender: More guns have probably suffered from lack of attention, than one that has been used and looked after. I doubt seriously that a gun that has been used all these years, will be worth less than the one forgotten in the attic, basement or barn. All of the items I own, are only mine for a short period of time as my life passes and the items live on. So, I am going to enjoy them. I have always said, everything has a price, if you want me to stop shooting them, consider that in your price.

Dan, please don't take this an attack or an insult to you. As it sure is not intended that way at all. I have heard this same thinking though about many of the items I play with, but just like the skin I am in, I am only borrowing it all for a little while anyhow. I don't think it will give me a better position in the "here after" but not enjoying it, while I am here.

 

Dave,
I have to agree with you. These pieces are a part of history and we only possess them temporarily. They should be enjoyed while we have them and then passed on for others to enjoy. Being part of the Ohio Longrifle Collectors, I have the privilege of owning many original Ohio made rifles most of which are in very good to like new condition. These arms were made to be shot and, even with the limitations of 18th-19th century engineering and metalurgy, deserve to speak periodically. Several years ago we began an annual shoot using original Ohio made rifles and this past year we had 20+ rifles on the line. Certainly, it should be done using caution and common sense and remembering that it doesn't take a "magnum" charge of powder to put a hole in a piece of paper. Here's to the old timers who created today's heritage.
Mark :hatsoff:

 

[Dave K]

Thank you Papa. I have heard of your shoot. Where and when is it? I am afraid my 33cal., M. Sheets, probably isn't Ohio, but I wonder because the lock is from Cinn.

 

Dave,
Our shoot will be on August 6, this coming summer in Centerburg, Ohio. I have listings for Martin Sheets I & II in Montgomery county, Ohio in around 1806+/-. Bring it along, or shoot one of ours. PM me for more details at: [email protected]. Y'all come, everybody's welcome.
Mark :hatsoff:

 

[Dphar]

YOu are right Dan. It is a poor idea to shoot these old guns. :wink: I will only use them a few more years and then let the next owner store them away. :surrender: More guns have probably suffered from lack of attention, than one that has been used and looked after. I doubt seriously that a gun that has been used all these years, will be worth less than the one forgotten in the attic, basement or barn. All of the items I own, are only mine for a short period of time as my life passes and the items live on. So, I am going to enjoy them. I have always said, everything has a price, if you want me to stop shooting them, consider that in your price.

Dan, please don't take this an attack or an insult to you. As it sure is not intended that way at all. I have heard this same thinking though about many of the items I play with, but just like the skin I am in, I am only borrowing it all for a little while anyhow. I don't think it will give me a better position in the "here after" but not enjoying it, while I am here.

I understand completely the lure of shooting old guns. I have been guilty of this myself. But I have an inherent distrust of old barrels until proven otherwise. The 18th century is full of accounts of people being killed and maimed by bursting gun barrels. Even in England with their relatively stringent proof laws.
I justt read a post about the Golcher family (of lock making fame) on another site and one of these was killed by a bursting gun barrel in the 19th century.
There was an account written by a doctor in a 1830s (IIRC) medical journal of a man who suffered from severe headaches and poor vision after his gun burst. It was 2-3 years before he finally visited this physician. The doc found that the breech plug had entered at the corner of his eye and was still lodged in the eye socket and could be seen if the eyeball was gently pressed to the side. The doctor was able to remove it without damaging the eye and the patient made a good recovery.
This was reprinted in "The Buckskin Report" years back. I could likely find it with some digging in old issues but its not worth my time.

Dan