Anyone shooting N. African snaphaunces?

[relyon59]

Most all such 'Native' made screws the threads are from' eyeball made taps & dies ' no standards . No relation ship to WW or NC. I refer to such as ' OMF '&' BSA.' viz 'Outer Mongolian Fine '&' Bizantium Standard Acme 'in this little different to old European threads . If you get a stick to turn in a tapped hole then file out a steel rod to match it this once flatted & hardened will cut you a thread into a piece of steel drilled so you form a die. again make cutting faces then harden them all & off you go period thread . but so long as the originals will function use those . Buggering up originals is a deplorable Vanity . as I see it .However cheaply it came our way .We have them in trust.
Rudyard's view on such matters

Pretty much what I figured, though I get a chuckle from descriptions like 'OMF' and 'BSA'. Great ones Rudyard!

We will have to agreed to disagree re: recreating period threads, taps, and dies, or using the original fasteners when FAR better replacements exist. I'm of the firm belief that if the standardized machine tools and machining practices available in the 21st century had been available when this musket was originally made, they most definitely would have been used.

I have ZERO interest in developing the skills to build the tooling and use the resulting fasteners when superior tools and components are commercially available today. To that end I expect to [minimally] oversize drill, chamfer, and tap the existing lock holes to use coarse pitched aviation grade fasteners wherever possible (eg: AN24-26A undrilled clevis bolts will most likely replace the three fasteners that attach the lock to the stock). Similarly, I also expect to replace all of the original nails and pins.

-Bob

 

[relyon59]

Though I started by soaking the entire lock in the ATF/acetone mixture, I really didn’t need to. As mentioned earlier, most screws I was able get off with little problem, but the mainspring screw and the screw attaching the frizzen arm to the upper frizzen spring link would not budge. But once the springs were compressed and the high shear loads the springs place on the screw shanks were relived, the screws backed out fairly easily.

The flash pan cover link pin, and the sear/sear release pins come out using a punch and a few light hammer taps, but the bent pin attaching the frizzen and mainspring cam was a real PITA to remove. Attempting to remove the bend broke the tip of that pic off, and tapping the broken end with a punch just mushroomed the pin end. In the end, both ends of the pin had to be ground off before a very fine push was used to tap it out.

The lock has been completely disassembled.

-Bob

 

[relyon59]

With the lock disassembled, I focused my attention on removing the ramrod and barrel from the stock. The barrel bands were constructed as Rick described previously, though I think bands 4 and 5 were replaced at some point, as they lack any ornamental detail. It’s clear to me that none of them can be reused, so the existing bands will be used for reference to fabricate new bands. Even with the bands gone, the ramrod didn't come out easily, and a utility knife and gently prying it with a putty knife was needed to free it.

Getting the barrel out was next. Grinding the head of the barrel tang nail, carefully drilling out the nail shank upper end, and a several punch blows revealed what I had suspected in an earlier post: the nail holding the barrel tang to the stock was the same one holding the forward end of the trigger guard, with both ends mushroomed like a long rivet.

The trigger guard came right off after prying the two nails attaching the rear of the trigger guard to the stock, but barrel was still stuck. I ended up having the pry the fore and aft stocks with the putty knife, only to reveal a dried up black goo that looks like it was used to "glue" the barrel and stock together. I had never seen such a thing, until now. The butt end of the stock is OK at best, but the part from front of the lock to the muzzle is complete trash, so I plan to make a new stock as part of the rebuild. Last to be done was removing the trigger and the upper and lower butt edge guards.

With the musket now entirely disassembled, I will now focus on cleaning, reconditioning, and replacing components as desired, prior to reassembling it to fire and shoot once again. This is also a good time for my last reply to this post; I've started a new post entitled "Moroccan Afedali Snaphaunce rebuild" for the next chapter in the life of this piece.

-Bob

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

I too have one completely disassembled and 'dissected' just like above ... just got into other Projects and like Humpty Dumpty ... it's not back together again. BUT ... I did mark everything for spacing and orientation, even to the bands, for 'which way' it gets put on - 'arrows' to the muzzle, LOL!

 

[rickystl]

Hi Bob

Congratulations !!! You did it. It's all apart now. Great job. I have some notes, but will post them in the new Thread - which is a good idea at this juncture.

Yes, two of the barrel bands appear to be later replacements, probably at different times in the 29th Century. Actually, very common to see on these guns.

Rick.

 

[rickystl]

I too have one completely disassembled and 'dissected' just like above ... just got into other Projects and like Humpty Dumpty ... it's not back together again. BUT ... I did mark everything for spacing and orientation, even to the bands, for 'which way' it gets put on - 'arrows' to the muzzle, LOL!

Flint: When you do get to restoring yours's, let me know if you are missing any parts. Good chance I have them.

Rick

 

[Rudyard]

With the lock disassembled, I focused my attention on removing the ramrod and barrel from the stock. The barrel bands were constructed as Rick described previously, though I think bands 4 and 5 were replaced at some point, as they lack any ornamental detail. It’s clear to me that none of them can be reused, so the existing bands will be used for reference to fabricate new bands. Even with the bands gone, the ramrod didn't come out easily, and a utility knife and gently prying it with a putty knife was needed to free it.

Getting the barrel out was next. Grinding the head of the barrel tang nail, carefully drilling out the nail shank upper end, and a several punch blows revealed what I had suspected in an earlier post: the nail holding the barrel tang to the stock was the same one holding the forward end of the trigger guard, with both ends mushroomed like a long rivet.

The trigger guard came right off after prying the two nails attaching the rear of the trigger guard to the stock, but barrel was still stuck. I ended up having the pry the fore and aft stocks with the putty knife, only to reveal a dried up black goo that looks like it was used to "glue" the barrel and stock together. I had never seen such a thing, until now. The butt end of the stock is OK at best, but the part from front of the lock to the muzzle is complete trash, so I plan to make a new stock as part of the rebuild. Last to be done was removing the trigger and the upper and lower butt edge guards.

With the musket now entirely disassembled, I will now focus on cleaning, reconditioning, and replacing components as desired, prior to reassembling it to fire and shoot once again. This is also a good time for my last reply to this post; I've started a new post entitled "Moroccan Afedali Snaphaunce rebuild" for the next chapter in the life of this piece.

-Bob

We should be about the preservation of antiques and not be in the same league as the hot rodders who take a Model T and make a fantasy car. Better business to make the all new parts and make a new gun based on your original .When all you have is bits then its exceptable to restore them into examples as I've often done in of course the correct style . .Refer the first post phots on the' Ottoman guns ' thread the Moroccan Kabyle was only a robbed out for parts remnant since it was originally made with Spring field parts it was one percussion gun but the breach end & lock got robbed by Springfields restorers the lock I Fitted was a Liege made flint lock un used but meant for restoring or putting the many surplus rifles for trade guns I was given a rough SF Barrel sans breach end . Thusly thrown away rubbish became the rifle you see & I hunted with it with my assistant Banjo the Beagle the only original band was the iron one the rest I made . Wedding a floating barrel to a floating lock if in suit is exceptable Ive done this with Afghan & An Algerian Muokhala also shown, the stock thrown away , Barrel Ex Noel Corry hoard .& lock an battery & its bridle came of the trade blanket at the First Shawnee NMLRA Eastern R vous along with the lock in the Shononi still unfinished rifle .I used it but decore is ever a challenge Oh Short carbine it was just a barrel & a lock ( the wood bits never phased me )It saw a lot of Bush miles before I finnished it
. Rudyard's view on such things

 

[Rudyard]

We should be about the preservation of antiques and not be in the same league as the hot rodders who take a Model T and make a fantasy car. Better business to make the all new parts and make a new gun based on your original .When all you have is bits then its exceptable to restore them into examples as I've often done in of course the correct style . .Refer the first post phots on the' Ottoman guns ' thread the Moroccan Kabyle was only a robbed out for parts remnant since it was originally made with Spring field parts it was one percussion gun but the breach end & lock got robbed by Springfields restorers the lock I Fitted was a Liege made flint lock un used but meant for restoring or putting the many surplus rifles for trade guns I was given a rough SF Barrel sans breach end . Thusly thrown away rubbish became the rifle you see & I hunted with it with my assistant Banjo the Beagle the only original band was the iron one the rest I made . Wedding a floating barrel to a floating lock if in suit is exceptable Ive done this with Afghan & An Algerian Muokhala also shown, the stock thrown away , Barrel Ex Noel Corry hoard .& lock an battery & its bridle came of the trade blanket at the First Shawnee NMLRA Eastern R vous along with the lock in the Shononi still unfinished rifle .I used it but decore is ever a challenge Oh Short carbine it was just a barrel & a lock ( the wood bits never phased me )It saw a lot of Bush miles before I finnished it
. Rudyard's view on such things

 

[Sam squanch]

the 29th Century

Now we have the proof! Ricky is a time traveler! Now we know HOW he got all those nice antiques…..

 

[Rudyard]

Now we have the proof! Ricky is a time traveler! Now we know HOW he got all those nice antiques…..

Thats probably a typo I didnt spot it , I seem to have double dose of my reply couldn't
get rid of it via back spaceing .
Cheers Rudyard

 

[rickystl]

Now we have the proof! Ricky is a time traveler! Now we know HOW he got all those nice antiques…..

Embarrassed. Sorry guys. My typo. 20th Century. Getting old I guess. LOL

 

[relyon59]

We should be about the preservation of antiques and not be in the same league as the hot rodders who take a Model T and make a fantasy car. Better business to make the all new parts and make a new gun based on your original .When all you have is bits then its exceptable to restore them into examples as I've often done in of course the correct style . .Refer the first post phots on the' Ottoman guns ' thread the Moroccan Kabyle was only a robbed out for parts remnant since it was originally made with Spring field parts it was one percussion gun but the breach end & lock got robbed by Springfields restorers the lock I Fitted was a Liege made flint lock un used but meant for restoring or putting the many surplus rifles for trade guns I was given a rough SF Barrel sans breach end . Thusly thrown away rubbish became the rifle you see & I hunted with it with my assistant Banjo the Beagle the only original band was the iron one the rest I made . Wedding a floating barrel to a floating lock if in suit is exceptable Ive done this with Afghan & An Algerian Muokhala also shown, the stock thrown away , Barrel Ex Noel Corry hoard .& lock an battery & its bridle came of the trade blanket at the First Shawnee NMLRA Eastern R vous along with the lock in the Shononi still unfinished rifle .I used it but decore is ever a challenge Oh Short carbine it was just a barrel & a lock ( the wood bits never phased me )It saw a lot of Bush miles before I finnished it
. Rudyard's view on such things

Hmmm.

Preserving the musket I purchased as an antique? For this piece, just hang it on a wall and that's done. That's not what I'm doing.

I'm neither a hot rodder building a fantasy car, nor am I building a fantasy gun (whatever that might be). I also have zero interest building a new gun from scratch based on an old one - I've ordered a Colonial American Pistol kit from Cabin Creek Muzzleloading for that purpose - and I'm not a hunter.

I'm a retired engineer restoring a once functional musket to fireable condition so it can safely shoot once again, as close to the original form and function as possible and practical. FWLIW, I'm also building a 2 place airplane in my garage. All are things I have hoped to do "someday" since I was a young child. Now that I'm 65 and retired, "someday" is here and I'm finally getting to do them.

-Bob's view on such things.

PS - The barrel will be sent this week to Bob Hoyt for inspection, and rebore or reline as he advises. If in Bob's opinion the barrel should not be fired again, then it won't be, and the rebuild is over, though I'll have a number of good parts for sale.

 

[Rudyard]

Hmmm.

Preserving the musket I purchased as an antique? For this piece, just hang it on a wall and that's done. That's not what I'm doing.

I'm neither a hot rodder building a fantasy car, nor am I building a fantasy gun (whatever that might be). I also have zero interest building a new gun from scratch based on an old one - I've ordered a Colonial American Pistol kit from Cabin Creek Muzzleloading for that purpose - and I'm not a hunter.

I'm a retired engineer restoring a once functional musket to fireable condition so it can safely shoot once again, as close to the original form and function as possible and practical. FWLIW, I'm also building a 2 place airplane in my garage. All are things I have hoped to do "someday" since I was a young child. Now that I'm 65 and retired, "someday" is here and I'm finally getting to do them.

-Bob's view on such things.

PS - The barrel will be sent this week to Bob Hoyt for inspection, and rebore or reline as he advises. If in Bob's opinion the barrel should not be fired again, then it won't be, and the rebuild is over, though I'll have a number of good parts for sale.

So its all about your notions. I am all about the preservation of antiques as a matter of principal .Noone doubts your abilities.
Regards Rudyard