Guest
Is the chemical used to make A-F without going the nitric acid/barbed wire/16 penny nails, toxic fumes route, called ferric nitrate. And if so what strength mixture is used. Thanks Bill
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Guest
Yes Ferric Nitrate is what you get when you add iron to nitric acid (Aqua Fortis is technically the old term for nitric acid, not necessarily the acid/iron mix as used today) - you can get it from[url] http://www.coscosci.com/patinas/patinachems.htm#Ferric Nitrate.[/url]
I mix at 3 to 1 distilled water to the crystals (some folks have gone to 5 or 10 to 1). Once that is mixed I then add between 2/3 and an equal amount of Muriatic Acid (aka hydrochloric). If the mix is too oranged/red add some small pieces of iron (degreased steel wool will work but old, rusty iron is better IMO) to the muriatic acid BEFORE mixing with the Ferric Nitrate mix - it will take about a week to dissolve the iron. Of course now you have some fumes while no where near as bad as nitric still care must be taken. OR you can purchase the Ferric Chloride crystals from the same source and mix at 3 to 1 and then mix with the Ferric Nitrate. You can tweak the color to the red side by adding more muriatic acid or to the brown side by adding iron - wiping down with ammonia will also shift to the darker brown side.
The mix of the two acids/iron is the chemistry of the now defunct Wahkon Bay AF per the gentleman which ran that business.
Apply liberally and let dry thoroughly until the wood turns dark - then apply heat - 200-250F is about right - to get the color/chatoyance to "kick". Neutralize with baking soda and water or lye (Red Devil). Once dry apply your finish - I like to apply a coat or two of a mix of Linseed Stand Oil (heat polymerized linseed oil available from art supplies or make your own) thinned with GUM turpentine - really makes the grain pop. Let the Linseed/Turpentine COMPLETELY dry in the warm sunshine and then apply your favored final finish.
Here are some examples of what you can expect color wise - each piece is different based on the AF mix, the tannin content of the wood, and how you hold your tongue while working :hmm: - low res images REALLY don't give you the real feel though.......:
I mix at 3 to 1 distilled water to the crystals (some folks have gone to 5 or 10 to 1). Once that is mixed I then add between 2/3 and an equal amount of Muriatic Acid (aka hydrochloric). If the mix is too oranged/red add some small pieces of iron (degreased steel wool will work but old, rusty iron is better IMO) to the muriatic acid BEFORE mixing with the Ferric Nitrate mix - it will take about a week to dissolve the iron. Of course now you have some fumes while no where near as bad as nitric still care must be taken. OR you can purchase the Ferric Chloride crystals from the same source and mix at 3 to 1 and then mix with the Ferric Nitrate. You can tweak the color to the red side by adding more muriatic acid or to the brown side by adding iron - wiping down with ammonia will also shift to the darker brown side.
The mix of the two acids/iron is the chemistry of the now defunct Wahkon Bay AF per the gentleman which ran that business.
Apply liberally and let dry thoroughly until the wood turns dark - then apply heat - 200-250F is about right - to get the color/chatoyance to "kick". Neutralize with baking soda and water or lye (Red Devil). Once dry apply your finish - I like to apply a coat or two of a mix of Linseed Stand Oil (heat polymerized linseed oil available from art supplies or make your own) thinned with GUM turpentine - really makes the grain pop. Let the Linseed/Turpentine COMPLETELY dry in the warm sunshine and then apply your favored final finish.
Here are some examples of what you can expect color wise - each piece is different based on the AF mix, the tannin content of the wood, and how you hold your tongue while working :hmm: - low res images REALLY don't give you the real feel though.......:
Last edited by a moderator:
Guest
Thank you Gray Wolf, exactly what I was looking for. As usual a great resource to this Board, and other boards we won't mention here. Bill
SquirrelFlinter
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That is a lot cheaper than getting nitric acid. Thank you for asking the right question. I have been looking for the right words to ask the right question.
DrTimboone
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I bought some Ferric Nitrate crystals fom the Science Company onine and have been experimenting with various dilutions on maple and powdr horns. It works quite well without adding anything else. Additions will help you get different colors.
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Bill,
If you use Baking Soda, make sure that it is FRESH!
As it will make a difference in it's ability to neutralize.
No-BS
If you use Baking Soda, make sure that it is FRESH!
As it will make a difference in it's ability to neutralize.
No-BS
Guest
As noted it is best to experiment until you are satisfied that you get the look YOU want.
and yes fresh baking soda is called for.
If any nitric acid based stain is not completely neutralized it will continue to darken over time - especially when exposed to sun light..........
and yes fresh baking soda is called for.
If any nitric acid based stain is not completely neutralized it will continue to darken over time - especially when exposed to sun light..........
At least in the furniture business, the lye water treatment method goes way back.
Lyewater does a couple of things, all of them good (unless you get a drop on your skin or cloths).
It brings out the tannen in the wood which darkens all of the surface, but moreso on the darker curl or burl than on the plain areas.
This makes these darker areas stand out, increasing the contrast between the stripes/swirls.
It removes all of the oil which has accumulated on the surface from your handleing it with your bare hands. This leaves a nice clean surface for the aquafortis or stains you wish to apply.
Lye water does not attack metal so any inlays can be installed before using it.
It should be neutrilized though if only to protect your skin when you touch the surfaces.
Neutrilizing can be done with vinegar.
As I only used aquafortis once, I don't have any experiance on its effect on neutrilizing aquafortis.
Lyewater does a couple of things, all of them good (unless you get a drop on your skin or cloths).
It brings out the tannen in the wood which darkens all of the surface, but moreso on the darker curl or burl than on the plain areas.
This makes these darker areas stand out, increasing the contrast between the stripes/swirls.
It removes all of the oil which has accumulated on the surface from your handleing it with your bare hands. This leaves a nice clean surface for the aquafortis or stains you wish to apply.
Lye water does not attack metal so any inlays can be installed before using it.
It should be neutrilized though if only to protect your skin when you touch the surfaces.
Neutrilizing can be done with vinegar.
As I only used aquafortis once, I don't have any experiance on its effect on neutrilizing aquafortis.
