Are the Military Heritage brown besses any good?

[FlinterNick]

The Rifle Shoppe Kits are advanced kits, you’ll need to have proper chisels, punches, files, taps and threads. You’ll also need to understand measuring for cross pinning operations, in all there’s 12-14 pinning operations on the Bress Stock. same thing with the TRACK `Kit. I’m working on parts for a 1756 pattern currently, I’m working on the Brass parts now, sanding and filing down. Gona cut the underlugs next month, I’ve been wrecked with sinus headaches and the flu, need a clear head for cutting small spots.


You can find a Pedersoli Brown Bess new for around 900-1200, check Dixie Gun Works.

Mirukos are often listed in gun broker around September for the fall re-enactments and hunting seasons. Most folks who shoot with them tend to prefer the miruko’s, the lock is much better and the barrel is lighter.

 

[FlinterNick]

So if a part DOES break in one of these fine Indian muskets, just what exactly are you supposed to do if you want to keep shooting it?

You’d fix it the old way. Find a cast part, fit the part and finish the part.

Example Brown Bess Hammers / Frizzens were not internchangible. When they broke in the colonies, there were so many investment casts that casted copies were available, however they were usually casted from earlier larger models so they could be reduced to fit. OR.. a smith would simply forge a new one from Whrought Iron. Not telling you to blacksmith a part bc that’s not practical but finding castings is.

 

[FlinterNick]

Are you sure about Dunlap stocks fitting Miruko parts? I bought a beat-up Miruko Short Land Pattern intending to restock it. When I called Dunlap, they told me their Short Land Pattern stock would not fit the Miruko parts, just Pedersoli.

Thanks

Nurmich Arms has a cheaper copy of an older Brown Bess Italian made stock. I think that would work well, it seems like there’s extra wood to work with too. You might need a new trigger guard and but plate and wrist plate but the lock and everything else should work fine. Side Plate might be a little off, but again not an expensive thing to replace.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
This has been a great thread with a ton of good information and insight. Beyond that insight, my take away, is that I am very grateful that I can build whatever gun I want.

dave

 

[FlinterNick]

I learned a long time ago that fitting a casted part isn’t as complicated as one might think. Patience, a file and a torch and a caliper and your good

 

[Dave Markowitz]

Hey Dave, I also met Tom at a match at the Marriotsville range when Tidewater muzzleloaders were still using the old Church road Davidsonsville range, I think 1974. Ron Griffie, Chuck Blender, Speedy Hogart, Larry Gartner George Maizer, Wayne Dunlap, and company...a tough group to shoot against. It took me a couple of dedicated years to get up to that level of competition. Sure learned a lot from those guys.

Cool! I remember Ron and Speedy, and Wayne rings a bell. Ron Griffie built my father a caplock .40 caliber poor boy in the early 70s that my brother now has. The rifle has a nice curly maple stock, poured lead nosecap, and a barrel that Ron rifled himself.

My dad also belonged to Tidewater but I can only recall going to the Davidsonville range once.

Dad's still kicking. AAMOF, I just got back from his house. Today is his 78th bday.

 

[Rockvillerich]

Cool! I remember Ron and Speedy, and Wayne rings a bell. Ron Griffie built my father a caplock .40 caliber poor boy in the early 70s that my brother now has. The rifle has a nice curly maple stock, poured lead nosecap, and a barrel that Ron rifled himself.

My dad also belonged to Tidewater but I can only recall going to the Davidsonville range once.

Dad's still kicking. AAMOF, I just got back from his house. Today is his 78th bday.

Hi Dave, please pass on best wishes to your dad. We usually used H&H barrel blanks, and I rifled a bunch of barrels that machine of Ronnie's...a 1:48 John Pope barrel as a guide, an automotive power steering pump controlled by a tractor hydrolic valve block, and an indexed barrel holder. It got the job done, and we had cutters to go down to .25 cal., which made for an interesting creature.

 

[TheTyler7011]

l recommend VeteranArms. Very good guys over their.

Don’t listen to anyone here when they say don’t get an Indian musket. They are exaggerating. l got a Brown Bess from veteranarms and lts AWESOME. Came with flint and a drilled hole out of the box.

These weapons were made hundreds of years ago. lf you think you need an incredibly high quality “today’s standard” musket, you don’t.

 

[FlinterNick]

l recommend VeteranArms. Very good guys over their.

Don’t listen to anyone here when they say don’t get an Indian musket. They are exaggerating. l got a Brown Bess from veteranarms and lts AWESOME. Came with flint and a drilled hole out of the box.

These weapons were made hundreds of years ago. lf you think you need an incredibly high quality “today’s standard” musket, you don’t.

It all is dependent on what you want in your gun. Indian made guns are not high quality weapons according to any standard, even ones set 300 years ago. I’ve seen some Indian guns of decent quality for re-enacting however I wouldn’t go as far as saying they’re good enough shooters. The locks are often poorly made with soft parts and the springs are heavy. The barrels are also made heavier making adding almost 1-2 lbs of extra weight. And finally.... Teak and or Rosewood is not good quality for gunstocks, its a tightly grained wood that often doesn’t take stain or oil and can splinter very easily simply by screwing in a lock bolt too tightly or a wood screw.

I would just as soon build my own.

 

[Tommy Bruce]

These Indian guns have their champions and detractors as well. I doubt that is ever going to change. They may be safe to shoot, but for me nothing about them looks right in terms of historical accuracy. I've seen a couple reworked that turned out "ok". For the amount of work involved, you might as well go ahead and buy a rifle shop kit or get a Pedersoli. I actually think the older ones are better quality. The Miroku Bess was a really good sparker and had a nice profile. I liked it a lot better than my Pedersoli but they are getting hard to come by and pricey as well.

 

[FlinterNick]

Agree Tommy! I actually only get my guns from the Rifle Shoppe, several Brown Bess Patterns and a few Charlevilles and Springfields, this collection holds its value too. I have two miruko’s, a Bess and a Charleville, they’re the finest shooters and best quality locks I’ve ever seen on a factory retro, I’m consistently getting offers from others to buy them.

When I started my hobby, one of the first things I did when I was a teenager was get to the museums to look closely at the originals and read books. The Indian made guns harbor very little authenticity to them; the original patterns were not nearly as chunky and bulky and the locks were much more graceful in design. The Indian made guns have too much wood, the locks are often ‘square’ looking and heavy and the springs are way too thick. The East Indian Company Ghurka made kits are very old however I’ve seen a few made into fine working guns. My biggest complaint about the Indian made guns is the wood. I understand Teak is widely available, but its main staple use is decking and flooring and boat lining. The hard tight grained wood tends to be naturally waterproof, many novices tent to thing a harder wood stock the better and water proof sounds nice... but try working with the wood with chisels... almost impossible. Drilling operations are complicated with the harder woods too becuase pressure builds the wood can easily split and crack.

Walnut was chosen for many reasons by gun makers for centuries becuase its easier to work with for manufacturing and repairs and then finishing.

 

[Straekat]

People are going to buy what they can afford, or what the limits of their credit cards will tolerate. Unless people have unlimited funds to buy everything they want, and of the best possible quality, normal life requires making decisions on how important various purchases are to us, and whether we have to drive to work in a $100K customized Porsche, or a 20 year old beat up truck.

Life in a free market world is about having choices you can make on your own, for yourself. I'm glad I live in a place where I have a range of choices, and can mentally tune out when someone else is giving me what sounds like a sales pitch to buy a new brand of something or other. In the words of Mick Jagger....

 

[FlinterNick]

People are going to buy what they can afford, or what the limits of their credit cards will tolerate. Unless people have unlimited funds to buy everything they want, and of the best possible quality, normal life requires making decisions on how important various purchases are to us, and whether we have to drive to work in a $100K customized Porsche, or a 20 year old beat up truck.

Life in a free market world is about having choices you can make on your own, for yourself. I'm glad I live in a place where I have a range of choices, and can mentally tune out when someone else is giving me what sounds like a sales pitch to buy a new brand of something or other. In the words of Mick Jagger....

Indian made muskets cost on average from 600-700; and there’s additional costs. Gunsmithing the vent hole (many are not vented), most Indian made locks are crude and need tuning. Youv’e now added 200-300$ of gunsmithing costs. Anything else added such as treating the stock or marking the gun appropriately is additional costs.

Most guys in my local re-enactment groups and clubs end up paying 900-1300 for an Indian made gun and almost always try to sell them regrettable for a loss.

I’m also not including the potential costs of making the gun an acccurate shooter, many of these Indian guns simply can’t be shot due to issues in the breech and boring, all it takes is a small flaw for that ball to be jammed and boom !

My only point is that the Indian Made guns are not very worthwhile due to the poor quality and additional costs.

We’re not talking about cars too, we’re talking about a firearm, something that should always be acceptable quality for personal safety as well as those around you. Cars have lemon laws and recal laws, guns dont.

Loyalist arms I would trust to sell a decent Indian made gun however that’s not to be said that many of their guns shipped in are not capable of being Shot, go to their sale page and specials page... many of their guns are flawed and not capable of being shot, they’re sold off as wall hangers and only good for blank shots.

Personally if I ever order from Loyalist, I’d request some custom work on the gun such as lock tuning, spare frizzens, and if possible a proof test (which they likely dont do).

Bottom line... if you want a good quality gun to shoot get a good quality gun to shoot made with high quality wood, steel and properly casted and forged parts. If you want to parade around as a reinactor and shoot blanks, Indian made guns could be a good choice. Personally I like to assemble own from parts I trust; Track of the Wolf, The Rifle Shoppe.. Pedersoli guns are ok, but even they have misgivings.

 

[fireman1]

I have been in contact with Loyalist Arms. To be honest, I am quite impressed with communication and what they indicate they will do on a flintlock before shipping. I would not be surprised to learn that they would test fire one.

 

[SirFrancis]

I have been in contact with Loyalist Arms. To be honest, I am quite impressed with communication and what they indicate they will do on a flintlock before shipping. I would not be surprised to learn that they would test fire one.

Would you mind sharing their contact info? The webpage I find was last updated in 2015 I believe. Same company?

Thanks.

 

[fireman1]

Would you mind sharing their contact info? The webpage I find was last updated in 2015 I believe. Same company?

Thanks.

same company. I just used the email on the page.

[email protected]

 

[Redstick Lee]

blah blah blah..........I sure enjoyed shooting my M/H NWTG (Chiefs model) ALL DAY LONG today at the range.....w/o a solitary FTF or flash in the pan.
shot RB, #00 #4 & #7.......with 1F in the barrel and pan....and a big honkin' French flint
used some home made shot cups.......some oiled sisal fiber.......some cork wadding........some cut patch........just a little of everything playing with my targets to see what changes each combo made.
everything's dialed in and next chance I get to hunt i'm carrying this gun with total confidence.

shame it's a junk gun that won't shoot and if it did wouldn't hit a barn door at 10 ft.........pffffffft !

 

[Tommy Bruce]

blah blah blah..........I sure enjoyed shooting my M/H NWTG (Chiefs model) ALL DAY LONG today at the range.....w/o a solitary FTF or flash in the pan.
shot RB, #00 #4 & #7.......with 1F in the barrel and pan....and a big honkin' French flint
used some home made shot cups.......some oiled sisal fiber.......some cork wadding........some cut patch........just a little of everything playing with my targets to see what changes each combo made.
everything's dialed in and next chance I get to hunt i'm carrying this gun with total confidence.

shame it's a junk gun that won't shoot and if it did wouldn't hit a barn door at 10 ft.........pffffffft !

I enjoyed riding a Sportster too until I road my first Softail.

 

[crankshaft]

FXR