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Are we all just "gun geeks"?
- Thread starter SimonKenton
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Flash - I guess I don't understand this "volumetrically" thing. I ran this around on another thread and didn't get an answer that I was satisfied with, but then, I didn't do any reasearch on it either.
I know that when you buy powder, it's by the pound - that's 7000 grains weight. As far as I know, grains is NOT a measure of volume - only weight. When I got my first can of Pyrodex, it said to use the same volume as BP - so I poured my 90 grains of BP into a little bottle, marked it, and then filled it to the same level with RS. I've been using that ever since - I have never weighed it.
Someone mentioned that the Lee powder measures measured volume, not weight. That's true - any container (cup) that you put something into will measure the volume. How much it weighs depends on what's in it. I have a set of the Lee measures, and I believe they measure a volume which equals that weight of powder - whatever kind is listed on the chart. Sooooo :yakyak: when you ask,
:imo: :results: :m2c: :sleep:
I know that when you buy powder, it's by the pound - that's 7000 grains weight. As far as I know, grains is NOT a measure of volume - only weight. When I got my first can of Pyrodex, it said to use the same volume as BP - so I poured my 90 grains of BP into a little bottle, marked it, and then filled it to the same level with RS. I've been using that ever since - I have never weighed it.
Someone mentioned that the Lee powder measures measured volume, not weight. That's true - any container (cup) that you put something into will measure the volume. How much it weighs depends on what's in it. I have a set of the Lee measures, and I believe they measure a volume which equals that weight of powder - whatever kind is listed on the chart. Sooooo :yakyak: when you ask,
I think the only answer is, "It depends on the type of powder."
:imo: :results: :m2c: :sleep:
This is tricky, and worth understanding.
Most powder measures appear to be calibrated for FFFg powder. BUT, the volume that 90 gr of FFFg occupies might only hold 84 gr of FFg because the larger kernels have less surface area and there is more trapped air in with them.
Pyrodex is formulated to be used with a measure calibrated for blackpowder by volume. It is a substiture for blackpowder, so a measure that gives a good load of FFg with throw the proper VOLUME of Pyrodex. I believe it weighs substantially less than black powder. Your 90 gr of Pyrodex might be equal to 120 grains of blackpowder. :shocking: Better check it. I don't know what the ratios really are.
Now here's the fly in the lube. Powder measures that have calibrations marked on them are in no way, shape or form consistant. I sat down with three I had and a pound of FFg, set them all at "90" and then threw 10 measures from each and weighed the results on an RCBS 5-10 scale. The "90" setting produced an average throw of 110 gr, 84 gr, and 94 gr respectively. That proved to me that I should not assume the calibrations are correct. With the one measure, someone thinking he had a hot load of 110 gr would actually be using an insane load of 132 gr. That's almost a proof load!
I no longer trust pre-calibrated measures, and keep a chart of what each measure throws at its various settings in my supply cabinet.
Check 'em. :nono:
Most powder measures appear to be calibrated for FFFg powder. BUT, the volume that 90 gr of FFFg occupies might only hold 84 gr of FFg because the larger kernels have less surface area and there is more trapped air in with them.
Pyrodex is formulated to be used with a measure calibrated for blackpowder by volume. It is a substiture for blackpowder, so a measure that gives a good load of FFg with throw the proper VOLUME of Pyrodex. I believe it weighs substantially less than black powder. Your 90 gr of Pyrodex might be equal to 120 grains of blackpowder. :shocking: Better check it. I don't know what the ratios really are.
Now here's the fly in the lube. Powder measures that have calibrations marked on them are in no way, shape or form consistant. I sat down with three I had and a pound of FFg, set them all at "90" and then threw 10 measures from each and weighed the results on an RCBS 5-10 scale. The "90" setting produced an average throw of 110 gr, 84 gr, and 94 gr respectively. That proved to me that I should not assume the calibrations are correct. With the one measure, someone thinking he had a hot load of 110 gr would actually be using an insane load of 132 gr. That's almost a proof load!
I no longer trust pre-calibrated measures, and keep a chart of what each measure throws at its various settings in my supply cabinet.
Check 'em. :nono:
Right, Stumpy - I agree. That's why I don't think anyone can say with certainty what weight charge they are using unless they actually weigh it. What we are used to talking about is actually a volume measure that is supposed to be equal to a certain weight.
I think I stated that I determined what volume my BP charge was (I had originally weighed out 90 gr. on a scale), and then used the same volume of RS - according to instructions. You're right - I really don't know what the weight is, but if it's the same volume as 90 gr. of BP, it ought to be LESS than 90, not more (I think).
Know what - I'm gonna go weigh it right now. I'll be back with the results.
:thumbsup:
OK - Made it back in time to edit this post.
I weighed three of my premeasured charges of RS (volume equivalent to 90 gr. BP ) and they weighed 67.3 gr., 67.7 gr., and 67.9 gr. - Quite a difference, eh?
Then I took my Lee powder measures, and following the instructions for Pyrodex RS, used two 3.7 cc meaures to throw approx 90 gr. of RS (actually, it should have thrown 91.2 gr). When I heaped the two measures as much as possible, I could only get a maximum of 80.6 gr. of RS! Either my powder is really dry (isn't that a good thing?), or Lee has built in a safety factor (which is what I suspect). The point is, if you really want to know the weight of your charge, you need to weight it. :imo: :results: :thumbsup:
I think I stated that I determined what volume my BP charge was (I had originally weighed out 90 gr. on a scale), and then used the same volume of RS - according to instructions. You're right - I really don't know what the weight is, but if it's the same volume as 90 gr. of BP, it ought to be LESS than 90, not more (I think).
Know what - I'm gonna go weigh it right now. I'll be back with the results.
:thumbsup:
OK - Made it back in time to edit this post.
I weighed three of my premeasured charges of RS (volume equivalent to 90 gr. BP ) and they weighed 67.3 gr., 67.7 gr., and 67.9 gr. - Quite a difference, eh?
Then I took my Lee powder measures, and following the instructions for Pyrodex RS, used two 3.7 cc meaures to throw approx 90 gr. of RS (actually, it should have thrown 91.2 gr). When I heaped the two measures as much as possible, I could only get a maximum of 80.6 gr. of RS! Either my powder is really dry (isn't that a good thing?), or Lee has built in a safety factor (which is what I suspect). The point is, if you really want to know the weight of your charge, you need to weight it. :imo: :results: :thumbsup:
I've been thinking about this off and on ALL NIGHT since my last post - thought I ought to add something just for anyone who is new to BP or who is really confused after reading this far on this thread.
Black Powder is the standard for the loading information for muzzleloaders. If you read about a load of "90 grains", DON'T think you can weigh out 90 gr. of Pyrodex RS and have the same load :nono:. You will actually have a load approx. 30% more powerful - equal to about 120 gr. of BP. The listing of "90 gr." is the actual weight of BP. To get the same power charge with RS, you need to measure the same volume as the 90 gr. of Black. That's why we use volume measures to measure our BP or substitutes. Whichever we pour into them, the power is approx. the same.
If you use one of the commonly available powder measures, you'll be getting approximately that result. But as Stumpy said, becuase of differences in how it may settle in, and how full you actually have it each time, your loads will be a little different. And one measure may not be exactly the same as the next - especially if they are made in China! (Something about the quality control of stuff coming out of there) :hmm:
Black Powder is the standard for the loading information for muzzleloaders. If you read about a load of "90 grains", DON'T think you can weigh out 90 gr. of Pyrodex RS and have the same load :nono:. You will actually have a load approx. 30% more powerful - equal to about 120 gr. of BP. The listing of "90 gr." is the actual weight of BP. To get the same power charge with RS, you need to measure the same volume as the 90 gr. of Black. That's why we use volume measures to measure our BP or substitutes. Whichever we pour into them, the power is approx. the same.
If you use one of the commonly available powder measures, you'll be getting approximately that result. But as Stumpy said, becuase of differences in how it may settle in, and how full you actually have it each time, your loads will be a little different. And one measure may not be exactly the same as the next - especially if they are made in China! (Something about the quality control of stuff coming out of there) :hmm:I was pretty much losing hope....I was somehow working up this weight vs. volume thing because I have this doctors appointment and I know my doctor will say something about my wieght.
Let's see if I can put this right: "Well Doc, it's really not about wieght, it's simply a matter of volume. My skin can hold more volume of fat than those charts of yours, so I'm really not that fat by a standard of wieght". I think that will work.
Geez, thanks Jaybe and Stumpy.
As for the BP stuff, I only use BP, so I'm safe.
Let's see if I can put this right: "Well Doc, it's really not about wieght, it's simply a matter of volume. My skin can hold more volume of fat than those charts of yours, so I'm really not that fat by a standard of wieght". I think that will work.
Geez, thanks Jaybe and Stumpy.
As for the BP stuff, I only use BP, so I'm safe.
SimonKenton
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Eeegads! WHAT did I start here?
-Ray :crackup:
-Ray :crackup:
SimonKenton
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My friend in CT is a board-certified clinical psychiatrist. Maybe she can give you guys a group rate?
Ray :crackup:
Ray :crackup:
flaming canvas
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She could probably build her whole practice out of the folks on this board. :haha: :haha:
If that don't work you can always ask how tall you need to get to be height/weight proportional.
I need to be 11'4" and an oak with my circumference is over 100 years old. :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup:
vic
just kidding. I only need to get to 9'3"
SquirrelsaurusR
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Only a bunch of geeks would be having this conversation. ::
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