As is said, “Well, hell.”

[LME]

I like that you are helping vets! I joined the service right out of high school in the early sixties. I was one of the lucky ones some of my childhood friends were not!

 

[kelljp]

Welcome from East TN

 

[stank]

Thank you for your service to military men and women. I never really thought about it but building these old guns is good for your soul. It’s good therapy. I really enjoy it. Welcome to our therapy

 

[MSW]

building a SMR of Kiblers now ... the machining is spot - on and the trigger is fantastic - better than most i've pulled. i got the kit much sooner than expected. i'm sure you'll have a great experience dealing with him - expensive, but worth every penny!

good luck with your build, and

Make Good Smoke!

 

[Walaw717]

William Lincoln and all. Thanks for your comments and for introducing yourselves

I have been a member of NRA for fifty years, so there are no issues there. I might join NMLRA, but I see many overly opinioned people lacking humility, and it is a bit off-putting.

I have lived in Ohio, WVA, Fl, and NM. I grew up going between WVA and Oh and lived in Fl for 20 years and NM for about 16. I still consider NM home though I live in the PNW now. I wish NM had not changed so much; I would return. Too hot, too many people now, and too Cali "fornicated" for my tastes.

I was head of search and rescue in Eddy County for a while, a USFS logistics officer, a volunteer firefighter in NM, and in a private therapy practice while training horses to show. In Fl, I was a deputy Sheriff briefly and a teacher. In college, I studied the History of Art and Cultural Anthropology. I worked my way through college as a medical technician as an alternative to being in Vietnam. The only difference in my trauma is I did not get shot at but would not wish the things I saw at 19 on anyone. My family was military, so doing alternative service on a facial cancer and burn unit was different and challenging since I was expected to serve. I have been a practicing therapist for 30 years.

I am one of those who did many things and lived in many places. I continue to work for the love of what I do and know that as I grow in some small wisdom, I can help those who offer the most for all of us— our warriors and families. I have lost patience for the hurt feelings of woke progressives, and that is tough in my profession because most colleagues are woke if they are young at the work.

I offer all this to introduce myself and dispel any illusions that I know anything about what I am getting ready to do. So, I am here to learn from your experiences and ideas.

I got on this forum a few months ago when I first decided to do a rifle, but as I said, I was waiting forever with no end in sight of waiting. I know we have supply chain issues, but this had gotten crazy, and I decided that doing an earlier model rifle and one made in the USA was the way I wanted to go. I grew up in the middle of the western part of Appalachia's French and Indian war area and was immersed in its history in school. So, it seems natural to pick up a colonial gun and start there.

The one part of my life I still need t to fulfill is the "artist part" I pushed that aside for other things, and I look at this build as a place to re-learn my creative hand skills, so I see this as doing art as much as building a gun though it is both.

As I have read and researched over these last few months of waiting, I have understood these things about 18th-century guns.

1. Most frontiersmen had simple, unornamented guns because they were poor, and elaborate guns were expensive. By the end of the 1700s, guns for those who could afford them were more ornate and decorative, and those were the ones that survived. So, we have a skewed view of how most frontier and colonial/fur trapping years' guns look.

2 There were primary forms that changed area by area due to differences in individual artisans. This was not a sizeable industrial project but a craft, and until past the revolutionary war, most rifles were hand-made and not mass-produced, so there is a lot of variation and a central theme.

3. Like today, many "redneck woodsmen, " including naive Americans, would attach decorations to personalize guns. Probably even more so than today. With our mass-produced guns, we tend to stick with what the manufacturers give us. Not many use tacks or brass to personalize things, and I do not know many who name guns anymore.

I appreciate the suggestions and thoughts you all have provided. Naval Jelly would have never crossed my mind.

For this first build, I want to keep it clean and straightforward. Maybe some decorative lines and a cheekpiece insert. Still thinking and want these next few weeks while I am waiting for delivery to be a time of ideas and to think this through. Then I want to take my time and create something beautiful and functional.

Anyone who builds one of these guns is an artist, and I appreciate that. Your experiences, successes, and failures are of interest to me.

 

[Bobby44]

Walaw 717 -- Thank you for your service, both past and present. I served in Canada during the cold war and was so fortunate to not see combat. I still ended as a 60% disability and was concerned for years about Ivan coming through the pass. I was off strength in 63 and remember the terms used for folks suffering various trauma. First was 'shell shock' then 'lacks strong moral fiber' and' burned out'. They were among the first to be mustered out (to no where) when the nation began cashing the Peace Dividend. Many were hardened Korean and 2nd War vets and were shunned by VA, the Military, Government and society. They found support in the Legion and from kind soles like yourself.
You are correct in saying the VA has changed with the new crop of vets from places like Bosnia and Afghanistan. I had dealings with VA again recently and was impressed with the folks I dealt with. I still am not impressed with any of our political leaders when it comes to this file.
I too have found solace in working with my hands and shooting my works. BP shooters are for the most part older folks and ready to share and help each other. That is why I hang around sites like this.

 

[Walaw717]

Walaw 717 -- Thank you for your service, both past and present. I served in Canada during the cold war and was fortunate not to see combat. I still ended as a 60% disability and was concerned about Ivan coming through the past for years. I was off strength in 63 and remembered the terms used for folks suffering various trauma. First was 'shell shock,' then 'lacks strong moral fiber,' and' burned out.' They were among the first to be mustered out (to nowhere) when the nation began cashing the Peace Dividend. Many were hardened Korean and 2nd War vets and were shunned by VA, the Military, Government, and society. They found support in the Legion and from kind soles like yourself.
You are correct in saying the VA has changed with the new crop of vets from places like Bosnia and Afghanistan. I had dealings with VA again recently and was impressed with the folks I dealt with. I still am not impressed with any of our political leaders regarding this file.
I have found solace in working with my hands and shooting my works. For the most part, BP shooters are older folks and ready to share and help each other. That is why I hang around sites like this.

At least it is recognized now. I teach people it is truly a stress reaction that moves your fight or flight watchpoint lower because your stress point eliminates all the middle and low ground from being so high for so long. In other words, always ready to go into action to survive for yourself and others.

The correction for it is to create a life with some predictability, low stress, and structure to over time lower their set points of reactivity. They also usually deal with the moral and existential questions of what happened. Life has to have meaning, and we have to have the illusion of control even though we know we are not in control of much. I operate on that basis and I have to monitor what comes in and make sure that fools are not demanding that I take their contrived crisis as my emergency.

Thank you for the services you offered, and sorry for your suffering.

 

[The Hawken Shop®]

FYI, the above mentioned "Hawken" kit was NOT ordered from The Hawken Shop®.

 

[Walaw717]

FYI, the above mentioned "Hawken" kit was NOT ordered from The Hawken Shop®.

Never said I ordered it from the hawken shop

 

[Walaw717]

I purposely didn't say where I ordered the Hawken. I am not in the habit of trashing any company.

 

[Old Timer 48]

Welcome!

 

[The Hawken Shop®]

I purposely didn't say where I ordered the Hawken. I am not in the habit of trashing any company.

Thank you. I just wanted to clarify that it wasn't us.

 

[Walaw717]

Thank you. I just wanted to clarify that it wasn't us.

I am fine with that. I do understand. My order was a foreign kit builder. Learning to buy American again.

 

[Mad L]

I have continued to follow and read the posts on this forum and get the impression that we are all mostly older men who are out of place and in the wrong century. At least I know I feel that way about the 21st century. That we are drawn to these older types of guns, and many are drawn to the older forms of dressing and being, says a great deal about how we feel about the present. I know I am tired of wokeness, wealthy elitists, supply change issues, and the general mess we live through. I made it through the 1960s and 70s with his hippy-dippy leftist stuff. Should providence allow, I will live through this.

Now there is a quote I can not only understand but can feel, right down to my bones.
....a song comes to mind...

 

[Omahkapi'si]

Welcome from grizz country in Alberta.

 

[Coinneach]

I like your post and attitude and of course, your Tam being of Scottish descent. I do understand the feeling of being out of place in the 20th and 21st centuries. Unlike many people I have no problem spending days on end alone without getting lonely.

Ditto I'm happy in my own company, simply because I don't have much in common with todays world and i dont want to have.

 

[Coinneach]

I haven’t posted lately since I was waiting for the gun kit I ordered, and all I heard was, “it is in transit,” “it is delayed,” etc., so I said enough. I canceled the Hawken kit and ordered one from Jim Kibler. It's a much different gun, but since I am not interested in being a re-enactor and want to build a gun and finish it for my soul, I ordered American and know I will get it.

I have continued to follow and read the posts on this forum and get the impression that we are all mostly older men who are out of place and in the wrong century. At least I know I feel that way about the 21st century. That we are drawn to these older types of guns, and many are drawn to the older forms of dressing and being, says a great deal about how we feel about the present. I know I am tired of wokeness, wealthy elitists, supply change issues, and the general mess we live through. I made it through the 1960s and 70s with his hippy-dippy leftist stuff. Should providence allow, I will live through this.

Currently, I work with active duty, combat veterans, and their families and deal with helping them to manage traumatic stress – theirs and mine. One of them has told me that we are already at war with China, we have been for a long time in a cyberwar, and our wealthy and much of our political class is behind the wokeness and undermining us to make more wealth for themselves. That sounds believable, but I know none of this woke stuff would fly in either Russia or China, so it does not make sense. All I know is that I need to turn closer to home to get the gun build I want. Maybe that is a good thing and part of the good lord pointing me to get away from all this cultural craziness.

I will still be around, hopefully sharing how the Kibler kit goes. I ordered the colonial in .58 and, after a great deal of thought, chose a smooth bore with a maple stock. I have thought long about how I should go, keeping it simple or ornamenting it with some carving. Been a lifetime since I did any wood carving, but I do know-how.

I think I will put together a Hawken in time but maybe look for an American-made kit to build it from parts. But I want to start with something simpler.

I am throwing this out to hear from you'all about your experiences building this colonial Kibler kit.

Thoroughly enjoyed reading your initial post, I'm about to turn 70 and very much where you are in life.
Finally retired from the Australian Army in 2007 after 37 years service, after a couple of years realised that the majority of folk "out there" were full of trickery and deceit.
Fortunately I'm a country Boy, raised in the old Australian Bush culture, fiercely independent and seeing everything in black and white.

BP ML's have helped keep me sane and balanced, building a Kit now and again is a real joy to me, I almost feel guilty even considering buying a brand name ML already finished.

Welcome to the brotherhood of interesting eccentrics and old world gentlemen, its a haven of sanity IMHO.

 

[Artificer]

I am fine with that. I do understand. My order was a foreign kit builder. Learning to buy American again.

Love your bonnet. May I ask your clan?

Gus

 

[Coinneach]

Walaw, I think you speak for all of us. And I am one of the Vets that are glad someone is there like you. Vietnam did me in, so I walk funny now, have bad dreams, etc. But the VA now is as different as night is from day as to what it used to be. Lots of good, caring and respectful medical people, at least at Columbus OPCC! The 100% disability pay, started about 2 years ago, really helps me in this ML activity.
Like you, I am a man out of time - but I know that, were I in the same physical condition in the late 18th, early 19th Centuries, I would not survive. Still, I do enjoy making and using firearms and accouterments - they can lure me into ignoring all that woke-ness Liberal crap. And that, my friend, is a glorious thing.
We should chat some time. Thanks for re-appearing on the forum.

BTW, I believe you will be very happy with Jim and Katherine's products. IF I ever finish one of the 5 or 6 projects I am currently buried in, I want to get one his kits also. Has to be big bore, tho - I am enamored with large led PRB's.

"The 100% disability pay, started about 2 years ago, really helps me in this ML activity."
I'm pleased to read this, you American Vets have had a shabby deal for too many decades. Here In the land of Aussie we've had a great DVA disability support and compensation system, I'm a 100% Special rate Vet, Free Medical and Dental etc, tax free for the rest of my life. It was first legislated in parliament after WW1 and has been upgraded consistently since then.

"Like you, I am a man out of time - but I know that, were I in the same physical condition in the late 18th, early 19th Centuries, I would not survive."
I think that in those days the community group culture looked after their own, everyone contributed the best they could away from the cities in the more rural and remote regions.

I marvel at what I've read and watched about your Amish people over there, I've come to believe that they've preserved many of the old cultural elements we've lost to "progress". Understandably they have their faults, particularly when it comes to Firearms; and objection to military service etc.

 

[Walaw717]

Love your bonnet. May I ask your clan?

Gus

McLaren