Asian "Enfield"

[calvarybooks]

I'm looking for info. on this carbine.

38" overall lenght
22" barrel
sliding sling loop
6747# in foreign writing

I have taken to gun shows in Wasthington state and just get shruggs.

 

[arquebus]

Looks like a Japanese chrysthanthemum marking. Can you post more photos, particularly of the lock.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

It's a Cavalry carbine built on the Enfield model. Maybe Nepalese issue. Need more info and photos. Is it rifled and what is the caliber?

 

[calvarybooks]

 

[calvarybooks]

smooth bore, .58 cal.

 

[calvarybooks]

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Pretty sure it's an old Nepalese gun. Could be a Khyber Pass knock-off, too. Lots of both around these days. I don't believe I'd fire it.

 

[calvarybooks]

I wouldn't fire this one. My grandfather left me several guns, barrels and parts and I haven't been able to track this one down. There are a few smoothbore's that I would like to fire after a good inspection from a gunsmith but I'm limited on funds and also by location.

 

[dyemaker]

Have no clue what Nepalese writing looks like but it sure looks Chinese to me. China does border Nepal.


On second thought it does not appear to be language of Nepal at all. Don't laugh..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTbFpfxoijE

 

[calvarybooks]

I think it's Kanji symbols (chinese character used in Japanese writing), but not sure.
Notice the rounded shapes in Nepalese and the sharp characters on the gun.
I would like to know about the inlay symbol.
The Japanese chrysthanthemum marking has 16 pedels and this one only four.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Looks like a twist steel barrel?

 

[texcl]

I've owned several nepalese enfields none of which had any of those markings, the nepalese enfields I owned were alot cruder than that weapon to boot. I would lean towards china or japan,I once looked at a very nice japanese marked enfield 2 bander, so they did use them, but I'm no expert.

 

[poordevil]

I read in Guns and Ammo mag. back in the 70's that the "Ever Victorious Army" in China used Enfields. Maybe that is one of those or a local copy, much like the Broom Handles.

P

 

[calvarybooks]

I will look that up online... maybe this symbol will come up. I find it tough to research in foreign sign.

 

[poordevil]

Look at Man At Arms books under Tiepai(sic) Rebellion

P

 

[dyemaker]

I know it does you no good but I recall seeing a Japanese rifle like this with the saddle ring while looking at photos online. I have no clue what it was I was looking for and the photo was small. It was just one of those things that struck me as odd, thats why I remember it. Good luck finding info. Sorry I'm no help.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Every little bit helps. The tough thing with guns like this is that they often started in different parts of the East and moved around a lot, picking up markings as they went. I have no idea what that silver inlay on the barrel means, but I like it. It is clearly a cavalry carbine and the walnut stock indicates European manufacture. The English often issued smoothbore versions of their service weapons to the indigenous troops under their command--the Sepoy Rebellion had left them a bit nervous in that regard.

Many times, when a war began, the belligerants would find themselves short of weapons and buy up whatever was available. Thus an obsolete gun that was in storage in India might wind up in China or Japan as a secondary issue weapon used by rearguard troops or troops whose main job was other than infantry--perhaps sappers or artillery.

It may be that the series of markings will reveal the carbine's travels and a rich history. All you need is an interpreter fluent in the languages of the Far East! Best of luck and please keep us posted. Dan

 

[boomer56]

Well, in the spirit of, "every little helps"...someone above suggested that this could be written in Kanji, and it could be- but it isn't showing any of the telltale Japanese characters I'm familiar with. Though I don't speak Japanese I do know a little bit of Chinese, and the language stamped on this weapon appears to be Chinese in my opinion.

If so, (translated into pin yin) the characters on the barrel in photograph one appearing beneath the flower insignia read:

mu - tree or wood (you have this as 6 from somewhere- that looks like an error to me)
qi - 7
si - 4
qi - 7
fan - kind or type, but this fan character is the first half of the the binary character "fan hao:" defined by my trusty Oxford as "designation for a military unit," and a tendency to leave off the second character when the meaning is "obvious" is one of the things that endears Chinese to foreign learners.


So that could well be a unit designation of some sort. As far as that stunning insignia, I think I've ruled out the 8 Banner Armies which were my first thought, but as stated above there are plenty of other options. China was a hodgepodge of military units after the mid-nineteenth century, and the poor quality of locally produced munitions meant that frontloading arms remained in use there far later than say Japan, so that Chinese soldiers could visually inspect the quality of the powder.

I've had a go at the second group of characters you posted in photograph six, but the last few are indecipherable- hard to tell what's character and what's woodgrain. They are obviously older, written before the communists simplified the language (no surprise), but it would probably be easier for someone at your end with some Chinese language background to try to work them out. Try to find someone with some gray in their hair- younger people probably won't be able to read the pre-simplified material. At the least, if you could rotate photo six 180 degrees, it would keep me (and hopefully others) from having to turn our heads so much :wink:

Hope this helps!

Boomer

 

[Mulebrain]

Actually, Japanese and Chinese share many similarities in regards to writing. I am asking my wife if she can read any of it. She can read some Chinese, as many of the characters are similar.

I will let ya know!

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Well, I doubt seriously that it is Nepalese. The post by Boomer above is very helpful. Possibly Japanese or (less likely) Chinese? Maybe Mule Brain's wife will be able to help. You might try posting on the "Firearms Of The Rising Sun" Forum at Gunboards at:
http://forums.gunboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=52

Moderators, if the link is a violation, please delete.