arcticap
54 Cal.
More than one source stated that ASM revolvers use .454 balls.
ASM 1851 Navy revolver
- Thread starter Eutycus
- Start date
-
- Tags
- asm 44 cal.
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
More than one source stated that ASM revolvers use .454 balls.
Thats why I had to drop out of detective school.haha.
One of these days I'll get it all together and go out and fire that thing.Looking at them is fine but they are made for shooting!
Use pure lead. Wheel weights have alloys and can damage the gun.
I recently acquired an ASM Colt Walker. I think it's going to be a good idea to install and better quality cylinder pin. Test fired 2 rounds. 454 on 50gn. Already had to add an 0.020 shim at back of wedge. Tried 2 more, 451 40gn and it stayed. What I've read indicates that the main part of the pistol is fair but the wedge is too soft and my experience says so is the cylinder pin.
I'm thinking about starting out using "store bought" balls and just save the lead wheel weights for the rifles. Oh a loading press is going to be used and not the rammer on the gun. What exactly did you mean by wheel weights may damage the gun? Were you referring to the brass frame?
Ball cast from wheel weights are harder than pure lead balls. Using the rammer to load aball cast from wheel weights may damage the rammer regardless of the material used to make the frame.
Late to the party here, but have to strongly express my opinion that anti-sieze is the way to go on nipple threads.
Silicone grease and other stuff are lubricants for moving parts. Anti-sieze is a product that is made specifically for parts that are meant to be stationary until removed.
As stated, a tube is cheap and available at any auto supply. I use it pretty extensively on nearly every fastener when working on cars. Do yourself a favor and remove your lug nuts and apply it there. I have broken wheel studs trying to remove frozen lugnuts. Imagine that scenario roadside trying to change a flat.
Spark plugs are especially critical as a little damage there goes a long way ( i.e. new head $$$$$$). And on that point, there's a proper amount of torque for every fastener in every application.
Fasteners actually work by stretching the threads, not friction. Too loose is as bad as too tight. Matter of fact, unless to the point of damage, tighter is better, the only downside is more force required for removal, but with anti-sieze, that force should be exactly the same force used to tighten it down. Most of the problems with removal are galling or corrosion, both of which are handled by anti-sieze.
As a last word on why too loose is worse. First off, the nipple, or spark plug or fastener can work itself looser. This is extremely critical in nipples and spark plugs, as they are under stress while in operation. As an analogy, imagine a stack of china plates duct taped together and strapped down in the back of a truck going down a bumpy road at high speed. Now imagine the same plates tossed into a loose box in the same truck bed. Which one do you think will make the trip?
Silicone grease and other stuff are lubricants for moving parts. Anti-sieze is a product that is made specifically for parts that are meant to be stationary until removed.
As stated, a tube is cheap and available at any auto supply. I use it pretty extensively on nearly every fastener when working on cars. Do yourself a favor and remove your lug nuts and apply it there. I have broken wheel studs trying to remove frozen lugnuts. Imagine that scenario roadside trying to change a flat.
Spark plugs are especially critical as a little damage there goes a long way ( i.e. new head $$$$$$). And on that point, there's a proper amount of torque for every fastener in every application.
Fasteners actually work by stretching the threads, not friction. Too loose is as bad as too tight. Matter of fact, unless to the point of damage, tighter is better, the only downside is more force required for removal, but with anti-sieze, that force should be exactly the same force used to tighten it down. Most of the problems with removal are galling or corrosion, both of which are handled by anti-sieze.
As a last word on why too loose is worse. First off, the nipple, or spark plug or fastener can work itself looser. This is extremely critical in nipples and spark plugs, as they are under stress while in operation. As an analogy, imagine a stack of china plates duct taped together and strapped down in the back of a truck going down a bumpy road at high speed. Now imagine the same plates tossed into a loose box in the same truck bed. Which one do you think will make the trip?
I do intend to put some sort if anti seize grease on the nipple threads. I almost needed a cheater pipe to remove them the first time. It was like an Italian Gorilla tightened them. And thats scary, because I bought the gun second hand . Which means the nipples were never removed by the original owner. Or it was he who possibly overtightened them?? But the threads look Okay.
I'm still at a loss here. Several shooters have told me that wheel weight lead is too hard. That it will damage the frame. Is it the loading or the shooting of hard lead that does the damage and how? Remember I said a loading press is going to be used and not the rammer.
The main damage associated with hard lead is damage to the LOADING LEVER.
Would a .451 ball work in a 44 cal ASM Navy? Would there be enough of a ring of lead shaved off to prevent a chain fire?
Soft lead is what most manufacturers recommend with the Italian replicas, and even the Colt 2nd Gen Black Powder Series. You can shoot harder balls, but, Rat is correct IMHO about getting a better seal with soft lead, also, not a problem if your shooting at least 20 yards distant, but soft lead will flatten out, pancake on impact, less lead coming back at you. I have a press as well, but use soft lead. It is more expensive than using wheel weight mix. I know there are guys that do it, and it hasn't hurt their pistols. You are wise to keep loads light with the brass framed replicas. It really isn't even brass, it is a modern alloy, that is generally stronger than brass, but you can still shoot the arbor loose on an alloy framed revolver shooting full bore loads.
You got a fair price though, holster and all, and it sounds like it wasn't shot much. Enjoy. I too have an 1851 Navy with so called "Reb" brass frame. Mine .36 caliber though. There never was a .44 caliber brass framed Navy revolver, only .36 caliber. That's OK with me. It wouldn't stop me from owning one. Some reenacors hate them since they never were back when, and the PC/HC folks would probably mention that if I hadn't. There wasn't a Ruger Old Army back when either, but I'd sure like to have a good used one if the price was right! LOL Oh, mine is a Pietta BTW. Picked it up on sale at Taylor's & Co. about ten years ago, NIB for $160.00 with extra cylinder included.
They are are very nice looking revolvers with the brass frame for sure.
I would check the arbor length and make sure it's not too short. Most Italian repros the arbor is short. Some of the earlier ones though it was spot on. You didn't give the date letters from the frame so we don't know what year it was made. I have read others that say their old ASM are of very good quality. Good luck, enjoy, and keep us in the loop! You may have a great shooter there!
One other thought. I suspect the manufacturers recommend soft lead because, if there is any misalignment, timing issue, the forcing cone will do a lot better job of compensating with soft lead. Also, if you get a squib load, or forget to load, and the cap pushes the ball into the barrel, the soft lead comes out easier as well.
8 BORE
50 Cal.
Just load one chamber and find out
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2005
- Messages
- 7,128
- Reaction score
- 5,430
Agreed - and more explanatory, it is the amount of EFFORT that you have to put on the loading lever and its axis pin when trying FORCE an oversize and over-hard ball into a hole that is just too small. Using softer pure lead ensures that the effort simply shaves off a very small ring of lead in the chamber-entering process, rather than trying do the same thing with a very much harder lead alloy. Wheel weights contain a proportion of antimony - speciifically used to harden them and render them less susceptibel to damage in use. Wheel weight lead works fine in a nitro-powder revolver or long arm - indeed, most so-called 'hard-cast' bullets made specifically for nitro-powder firearms are about the same hardness as the average wheel-weight, but they are NOT for the muzzleloader.
lyman54
32 Cal.
Although chambers may vary in size slightly, be it a .36 or .44 a .451 ball would most likely be too small. It is my belief and many others that putting grease over the ball does nothing to prevent a chainfire. If a pure lead ball leaves a lead ring behind, no sparks will go through. Most of the grease ends up all over the revolver making a mess, little goes down the bore. Best bet is a tight ball on top of a lubed wad. I make my own wads but you can buy them too.
Actually I think I did mention that this gun was manufactered in 1994, but it was in a later post. Code is BD on the frame.
I bought a box of lead balls for this gun yesterday, but mistakenly got the wrong size. Got half way home before I realized they were 451s instead of 454s. The place I bought them is an hour away. What would y'all do? Exchange them at a later date or give them a try ?
I bought a box of lead balls for this gun yesterday, but mistakenly got the wrong size. Got half way home before I realized they were 451s instead of 454s. The place I bought them is an hour away. What would y'all do? Exchange them at a later date or give them a try ?
I would measure the cylinder mouth. If the cylinder mouth measures 0.449 or less, I would use them. I would also use a wad under the ball to minimize the chance of a hangfire. You could also try a bee's wax and olive oil mix (50-50) over the ball to help keep the ball in position. But, I would watch for movement of the ball after recoil. It may move forward in the cylinder.
If you can wait, then the better choice would be to wait until you can exchange them.
If you can wait, then the better choice would be to wait until you can exchange them.
I think I'll just exchange the 451s for 454s.The right size might have to be ordered, though. But I suppose it'll be worth the wait in order to "do it right". But like I said earlier that store is a good hour away. If this store does own a pair of calipers, I'll have them measure the cylinder mouth. 0.449 right? Hurry up and wait!
Thanks to each and everyone for your advice and help. And a special thanks to Grenadier1758. It totally slipped my mind about the undersize ball possibly moving inside the cylinder after recoil. That could have made for a bad accident.
Similar threads
SOLD - Pending funds
Brass frame ASM 1858
