Authenticity of Veteran Arms Brown Bess Muskets

[Clark Badgett]

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I absolutely love any thread about Indian muskets since they bring out the best in our members.
From metallurgy or mid 18th manufacturing processes / politics and now grammar.
I'm not taking sides or commenting one way or the other.
But this is just bananas. As an RN and one that worked Baylor ER, "colon" takes on a WHOLE new meaning with "Learn to use".
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I did not choose the spelling of colon. I even triple checked the spelling. Unfortunately, missing punctuation can completely change the meaning of a sentence.

 

[Aglukan]

In all seriousness- these India gunmakers need to offer a miquelet lock. Precise fitting is not required, with a good mainspring and properly tempered frizzen they spark every time! The trigger pull takes some getting used to though, but for a musket it’s ok.

I don’t think i will be investing anymore with guns made from India, no matter what type they are.

 

[FlinterNick]

Comparing as completed guns. TRS lock came assembled when my friend bought it many years ago. Actually I am going to have to rebuild the rifle shoppe lock as it doesn't work as well as the indian.

You’re going to rebuild a lock that Jess Melot assembled because you say it doesn’t work well ? Jess makes excellent locks, one of the best lock makers ive ever seen. You must be one of the best then to correct his work.

 

[Commodore Swab]

You’re going to rebuild a lock that Jess Melot assembled because you say it doesn’t work well ? Jess makes excellent locks, one of the best lock makers ive ever seen. You must be one of the best then.

Yes I will be rebuilding it. I rebuilt the snaphaunce they built and reliability more than doubled. I say doubled as I created tests to test reliability. Rather than simply making a lock spark I wanted to be able to judge reliability over time/multiple shots. Think of it as fine tuning and there is always room for improvement. Jess thinks I'm decent as there was discussion a while back about my helping them with wheellocks.

 

[FlinterNick]

Yes I will be rebuilding it. I rebuilt the snaphaunce they built and reliability more than doubled. I say doubled as I created tests to test reliability. Rather than simply making a lock spark I wanted to be able to judge reliability over time/multiple shots. Think of it as fine tuning and there is always room for improvement. Jess thinks I'm decent as there was discussion a while back about my helping them with wheellocks.

Well thats odd, they sent me three wheel locks last month. Are you the guy who tried to copy their parts ?

 

[Commodore Swab]

Well thats odd, they sent me three wheel locks last month. Are you the guy who tried to copy their parts ?

I never took them up on their offer, I have no interest in building locks for them to sell.

 

[FlinterNick]

I never took them up on their offer, I have no interest in building locks for them to sell.

But you work on Indian made locks? Thats an awful lot of time, by all means take them all, send me your name and address and I’ll forward to you.

 

[Commodore Swab]

Absolutely I work on them, I make them work reliable. I don't try to rebuild them that is a waste of time and energy. Tuning them to work reliably is a fairly quick process. There are people that can't afford a custom built piece so these guns are their only option. When I tune a lock for them and they are able to enjoy their gun rather than getting frustrated it makes me feel good.

 

[Clark Badgett]

Yes I will be rebuilding it. I rebuilt the snaphaunce they built and reliability more than doubled. I say doubled as I created tests to test reliability. Rather than simply making a lock spark I wanted to be able to judge reliability over time/multiple shots. Think of it as fine tuning and there is always room for improvement. Jess thinks I'm decent as there was discussion a while back about my helping them with wheellocks.

Give me your name and I’ll ask Jess about you next time I’m down there. He did make comments yesterday about India guns and some guy that wanted him to make some parts for them. He had a genuine disgusted sound in his voice.

 

[Commodore Swab]

Give me your name and I’ll ask Jess about you next time I’m down there. He did make comments yesterday about India guns and some guy that wanted him to make some parts for them. He had a genuine disgusted sound in his voice.

Wasn't me.

 

[Clark Badgett]

Wasn't me.

Ok, then drop the anonymity and let me inquire with Jess about your talent with locks.

 

[Commodore Swab]

The point of creating a reliable test is so you can measure results. This allows for a better judgment and comparison than an opinion. I can think of no reason Jess would be looking over any Indian built pieces I have tuned. As that and the comparison between brown besses being the current topic I see no way he could have an opinion. If the topic becomes locks that I have built then that is irrelevant to the topic.

 

[Clark Badgett]

The point of creating a reliable test is so you can measure results. This allows for a better judgment and comparison than an opinion. I can think of no reason Jess would be looking over any Indian built pieces I have tuned. As that and the comparison between brown besses being the current topic I see no way he could have an opinion. If the topic becomes locks that I have built then that is irrelevant to the topic.

You have claimed in the past that Jess Melot is a good friend of yours. Jess also has stated that he flat out refuses to touch the India guns. So I guess you are refusing to let me verify your talents with one that should know, if what you claim is fact and not fantasy.

 

[Commodore Swab]

You have claimed in the past that Jess Melot is a good friend of yours. Jess also has stated that he flat out refuses to touch the India guns. So I guess you are refusing to let me verify your talents with one that should know, if what you claim is fact and not fantasy.

I don't care if you "verify" or not. I have nothing to prove to you. It does make me curious why you would trust someone's opinion on something they have never seen to determine whether it is fact or fantasy. I recently (past year) had a thread regarding the tuning of an india flintlock and the testing involved.

In the past I have demonstrated how even a Murdock from India can be made reliable.

I am currently building a rifle shoppe Murdock and it is surprising how close (minus lock internals) the India Murdock is to the rifle shoppe. A proper patina and 10-15 feet away it would be difficult to tell a difference

 

[FlinterNick]

I don't care if you "verify" or not. I have nothing to prove to you. It does make me curious why you would trust someone's opinion on something they have never seen to determine whether it is fact or fantasy. I recently (past year) had a thread regarding the tuning of an india flintlock and the testing involved.
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In the past I have demonstrated how even a Murdock from India can be made reliable.
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I am currently building a rifle shoppe Murdock and it is surprising how close (minus lock internals) the India Murdock is to the rifle shoppe. A proper patina and 10-15 feet away it would be difficult to tell a difference

Did you have another pistol barrel accidentally rifled ?

 

[FlinterNick]

You have claimed in the past that Jess Melot is a good friend of yours. Jess also has stated that he flat out refuses to touch the India guns. So I guess you are refusing to let me verify your talents with one that should know, if what you claim is fact and not fantasy.

Jess doesn’t touch Indian guns, neither do most builders Paul Ackerman, Mike Brooks etc. Jess has a poor opinion of Indian made guns, partly because of the time they consume. he often tells me the story about the Indian made brown bess someone left in his shop 10 years ago, it hasn’t not moved from where it was left haha.

I’ll be down there at this shop for a week in the fall, working with him on some lessons.

 

[Commodore Swab]

Did you have another pistol barrel accidentally rifled ?

So to steer things back on topic regarding comparison of different guns and accuracy. Nick is referring to the Murdock kit from TRS that comes with a rifled barrel. While historic Murdock are smooth bore TRS has theirs rifled. On the other hand they do have the correct sear. This illustrates OP how there are inaccuracies in what is available on the market. Something Dave made when referencing how there were no commercially available "correct" brown besses. Just another example of how if there is something specific your best option is to have something made for you.

 

[FlinterNick]

So to steer things back on topic regarding comparison of different guns and accuracy. Nick is referring to the Murdock kit from TRS that comes with a rifled barrel. While historic Murdock are smooth bore TRS has theirs rifled. On the other hand they do have the correct sear. This illustrates OP how there are inaccuracies in what is available on the market. Something Dave made when referencing how there were no commercially available "correct" brown besses. Just another example of how if there is something specific your best option is to have something made for you.

The barrel was rifled because you requested it to be rifled, just like that queen Ann pistol you showed everyone a few years ago with the rifled barrel. If you ask the rifle shoppe to rifle a barrel, they will, it’s that simple.

Well enough, we actually know each other, and from what i know of you, i understand know why you’ve chosen to be anonymous, see ya around Mike..

 

[Commodore Swab]

The barrel was rifled because you requested it to be rifled, just like that queen Ann pistol you showed everyone a few years ago with the rifled barrel. If you ask the rifle shoppe to rifle a barrel, they will, it’s that simple.

Well enough, we actually know each other, and from what i know of you, i understand know why you’ve chosen to be anonymous, see ya around Mike..

FYI I did not request it rifled nor the other one I have. Please don't make claims about me that you don't know about.

 

[FlinterNick]

FYI I did not request it rifled nor the other one I have. Please don't make claims about me that you don't know about.

I think it’s cool no worries