ball blocks

[Grizzled Roberts]

I have to disagree but Francis Marion's story was too boring to make a hollyweird movie. General Marion was not bloodthursty. He did not like mistreating prisoneers. His Son was murdered by loyalists. When his men caputured his son's killers, his men killed them in turn. When Francis Marion found out about this it was the only time on record that General Marion drew his sword during the entire war. Shortly after the
war ended General Marion could not get his sword out of its scabbard for a public event. It had rusted in it's scabbard!
General Marion was a master commander. With his little under manned and under supplied force he disrupted the British forces in the coastal regions. His men would leave their camp in NC and ride sixty miles all night with just three rounds per man. They would attack and defeat a larger British force and bugg out again. He had to move his camp camp around between the swamps of South Carolina and the piedmont region of North Carolina. Before the War Marion was not a rich man
he only had a small farm. So he only had a few slaves. As Far as slaves go perhaps someone could
tell me the name of any of our well to do fore fathers who did not own slaves in the 18th century? It was General Thomas Sumter who had
the soiled reputation with his slave policies down in SC. General Francis Marion was not the man you described. :thumbsup:

 

[Zonie]

It would seem that some people can not stick to the topic of this post.
I don't know why.

The subject of this topic is BALL BLOCKS . It is NOT HOLLYWOOD MOVIES or THE STORIES BEHIND THE HOLLYWOOD MOVIES OR ANYTHING ELSE THAT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH HOLLYWOOD MOVIES.

If someone wants to start a post about Hollywood movies please do so BUT start your post in the
"Muzzleloading and History in the Media " section of the forum where those who care can read and argue to their hearts content.

 

[bwhoffman]

a large rat tail file works good to enlarge the holes. fit is dependant upon actual ball size+patch thickness.
I found that lubed patches will dry out as the wood absorbs the lube. I started rubbing my blocks with bee's way and heating up in the micro wave for about 20 seconds and rubbing in more. Sort of sealed the wood.
my .50 blocks are about .515ish, holds the prb and does not split the wood.
You should be able to load these with thumb pressure only!

 

[rebel727]

How well do they work when you have to use a short starter to get a load started?

 

[Stumpkiller]

The above gives rise to an interesting question. Today, things like drill presses, a multitude of inexpensive bitts in many sizes and rat tail files & sandpaper are readily available to many of us & we can knock off a couple of bullet blocks in an hour. How would the "simple backwoods man" who only had such very basic tools as an axe & saw & knife make the precisely sized holes that it takes to make the bullet block work?

I've done them with nothing but a pen knife (which folks had then and actually used to keep the nibs of quill pens sharp) and a block of wood. No drill of any kind except twirling the blade. Drilling (with my few drills) chews up and roughens the wood too much, anyway. Cut is smoother.

If you can get a hole in the spout of a powderhorn and fit a plug that is relatively watertight you can do a ball block. Ever seen any of the wood puzzles and chip carving "folksy" folk did to keep amused?

Sure, guys on the frontier on a six-month trapping & hunting excursion wouldn't maybe bother or have the right knife. But the 95% other citizens using firearms in the colonies might have. If you can make & justifty a short starter (with dowel & hole) you can do a ball block. :wink:

PS - my two stub-starters are whittled from a single piece of wood. No holes in one (an iron staple & the ither has a hole I put in with a gimlet (a hand twist drill that looks & works like a cork-screw).

We're not talking the stone-age here. Homes and barns were held with pinned beams - drilled & doweled. Chairs were made with spindles & drilled holes.

How do you thing the natives got holes in wampum beads? By removing a little at a time.

Lewis & Clark had the equipment on their trip to build boats and freshen the rifling in the barrels of their rifles. The rifle & axe weren't the only important tools of the age.

 

[Stumpkiller]

How well do they work when you have to use a short starter to get a load started?

Fine. You just poke the starter through the block. In that case it's easier if you let the ball & patch be a little "proud" so it aligns itself on the barrel. I've seen them with brass tacks on the corners to allow just the right clearance when pressed on a flat surface.

Some folks make large blocks and countersink for the muzzle to center it like a wood false-muzzle.

None of mine are that big and that is a feature that would require "fancy" tooling.

 

[Coot]

The above gives rise to an interesting question. Today, things like drill presses, a multitude of inexpensive bitts in many sizes and rat tail files & sandpaper are readily available to many of us & we can knock off a couple of bullet blocks in an hour. How would the "simple backwoods man" who only had such very basic tools as an axe & saw & knife make the precisely sized holes that it takes to make the bullet block work?

I've done them with nothing but a pen knife (which folks had then and actually used to keep the nibs of quill pens sharp) and a block of wood. No drill of any kind except twirling the blade. Drilling (with my few drills) chews up and roughens the wood too much, anyway. Cut is smoother.

If you can get a hole in the spout of a powderhorn and fit a plug that is relatively watertight you can do a ball block. Ever seen any of the wood puzzles and chip carving "folksy" folk did to keep amused?

Sure, guys on the frontier on a six-month trapping & hunting excursion wouldn't maybe bother or have the right knife. But the 95% other citizens using firearms in the colonies might have. If you can make & justifty a short starter (with dowel & hole) you can do a ball block. :wink:

PS - my two stub-starters are whittled from a single piece of wood. No holes in one (an iron staple & the ither has a hole I put in with a gimlet (a hand twist drill that looks & works like a cork-screw).

We're not talking the stone-age here. Homes and barns were held with pinned beams - drilled & doweled. Chairs were made with spindles & drilled holes.

How do you thing the natives got holes in wampum beads? By removing a little at a time.

Lewis & Clark had the equipment on their trip to build boats and freshen the rifling in the barrels of their rifles. The rifle & axe weren't the only important tools of the age.

You seem to have confused my question concerning the "simple backwoodsman" and how he could perform certain tasks with only the most basic tools with a an inquiry into 18th century manufacturing capabilities. I am very well aware of the tools and capabilities of the gunsmith, joiner, cabinetmaker, etc. all of whom had the equipment and ability to make precise holes. Previous answers (and the first part of yours) addressed burning holes and/or using a pen or pocket knife which would suffice to demonstrate that bullet blocks were within the capability of the "simple backwoodsman" which was the whole point of the inquiry.

 

[tg]

I was not saying it could not be done,but if it were done on the frontier, it would likley have been done in a shop somwhere as an accesory item, like horns, slings, and a number of after market items that there might be a market for, and period advertizments for, the real question is as you get back into the F&I period where are the existing survivors? we may be looking at them and the 1750 longrifle without knowing it as few things were marked with a date back then.

 

[bwhoffman]

I have not had issues nor those I shoot with that use them on a regular basis!
I make them, but I dont use them a whole lot.

 

[Grizzled Roberts]

It is often said that the reason we do not see loading blocks or ball blocks listed on 18th century invoices is that they were made by the gun owners not produced by a vender. When you look at ball blocks on guys bags now, you can tell they are made by the skill level of the shooter. No mass production in most cases.
I have noticed the original ball blocks like in Madison Grant's books, are not very fancy at all.
Some of the CLA craftsmen make loading blocks with Ivory inlays! These are works of art. Me thinks back in the day they were just wood slabs
with holes "drilled" in them to give the hunters a quick reload. I have one for all of my firelocks. I even had one for my 1st model Brown Bess. You could get a hernia toting 5 balls for a seneca run!
:thumbsup:

 

[Coot]

The different schools of thought re the dates of use for bullet/ball/loading blocks do not seem likely to be reconciled soon. They certainly could have been made by skilled 18th c. craftsmen with existing period precision tools but the lack of invoices or other records of gunsmiths or other vendors mentioning bullet/loading blocks suggests that they were more likely user made items. Earlier posts have given a number of methods that could be used by almost any shooter in the absence of sophisticated or specialized tools to produce fully functional blocks. The lack of documentation could be explained by either the "too simple & basic to mention" theory or by the "they simply didn't exist yet because no thought of the idea until later" way of thinking. Kind of like wondering exactly what the 1750 rifles looked like, we can speculate at will but need to hope that someday a discovery will put the issue beyond debate. As a buddy said, "I feel strongly both ways". :surrender:

 

[Stumpkiller]

It's funny. We know more about what a man carried and munched on while hunting 5,300 years ago (Oetzi) than we do about an American hunter in 1750. 'Course, he wasn't carrying a license and wasn't wearing his back-tag so we can't be sure he was a hunter or that his hunting buddies didn't go through his pockets and pack before leaving him.

Maybe someday we'll find some hapless hunter in the deep permafrost around the upper Hudson River.

 

[Freedom]

I have been following this thread and have seen no mention of the true primative Indian drill.

I have read of the use of a fire starting "Bow Drill" with a sharp stone lashed to the friction end to drill very clean holes....this is well within the relm of a non-equiped woodsman. This coupled with a hot ember from the fire wouldn't take much at all to drill some holes for a ball block :thumbsup:

I built and tried one of these just to see and it is quite functional, especially when slate is used for the stone. Obsidian not so good.

 

[cptleo1]

Here is a thick leather one I like

 

[Freedom]

Hey! I recognize that little turtle....It's one that I made :thumbsup:

I'm glad you like him :grin:

Here's wishing everyone a very wonderful Christmas :hatsoff:

 

[tg]

I really wonder how usefull they would have found them, it is generally accepted they shot a thumb start ball, if that were the case a ball lock would not be a big advantage, kind of leaves the short starter out in the cold as well I suspect both are a later devices which were used to a moderate level at best.Nothing wrong with using them but not much to support their use during early dates should a tourist ask about them.