Ball or conical

[laufer]

in my own experience, prb .53 over 100gr of pyrodex rs (ffg) never, ever failed to penetrate through elk ribs and both lungs on shots shorter than 100 yards. for mule deer, it just goes through with .53 over 80gr goex fffg. shot placement and distance are as important as type of projectile.
:v

 

[laufer]

... the difference between even a large mulie and a large elk is significant. Ya really gotta kill a big elk and then stand over it all alone and far from camp or road to really appreciate their size. :haha:
...

this is soooo true!!!!

 

[paulvallandigham]

I think you have answered your own question. Given a choice, I would choose the .54 with a RB over a .50 with a RB for shooting any Elk, at any distance. Given the choice, I would choose a hard RB over a soft, pure lead RB for hunting Elk. And, Given the choice, I would choose a conical over a RB for Elk hunting.

 

[Little Wattsy]

I think you have answered your own question. Given a choice, I would choose the .54 with a RB over a .50 with a RB for shooting any Elk, at any distance. Given the choice, I would choose a hard RB over a soft, pure lead RB for hunting Elk. And, Given the choice, I would choose a conical over a RB for Elk hunting.

Well Said! :thumbsup:

 

[longcruise]

I think you have answered your own question. Given a choice, I would choose the .54 with a RB over a .50 with a RB for shooting any Elk, at any distance.

That has nothing to do with the question! I'm not asking a .50 vs .54 prb question, I'm asking for reports from those who have any kind offirst hand experience of using or observing the use of .50 prb on elk.

Given the choice, I would choose a hard RB over a soft, pure lead RB for hunting Elk. And, Given the choice, I would choose a conical over a RB for Elk hunting.

Suit yourself! I can assure you, from first hand experience, that there is no need for hard balls or conicals to kill an elk. I know for a fact that the .54 prb in pure lead does a fine job. I know that a conical will kill an elk. I'm pretty sure that a .50 prb will do the job on elk but have no first hand experience and that is what I would like to hear about.

Have you ever killed an elk with anything?

 

[tg]

"Have you ever killed an elk with anything?'

I heard he bored one to death once while making a long winded description about how to stalk large game in the heavy forest.

I have used the .50 on three Elk in the past, they were not huge bulls but twl were good sized cows and one a large calf, none went more than 50 yds untill they laid down, I ythink one is best off to get close or wait for a close shot to take out the lungs, and not by trying to bustup the shoulder bones, many have used this load with good results out past 100 yds, I chose to limit my shots to 75 most Elk I have taken were under 50 yds in thick cover, there were several on this forum that spoke up for the .50 last time it came up I would think that they will chime in again if they are still around here.I don't think there is a need for a hard lead ball, others opinions may vary.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Both you and Tg will be elated to know that I have never killed an Elk. I would gladly swap my back problems for your back, so I could go out west and do this dream hunt to satisfy you incessant demand to know everything I have and have not done. :bow: :surrender: :grin:

And I never said that a .50 with a RB made of pure lead is inadequate for Elk. Just keep the range close. I would do the same thing for Mule deer, and any other larger species of game. I prefer to close as near as possible to Whitetails before shooting at them, if possible. To date, my deer have been killed at distances under 50 yards. What my last post said was, Give a choice between using a .50 or a .54, I would use the .54 caliber MLer for elk. Stating a preference is not saying something is inadequate. If you don't understand those fine points of logic, you have a serious problem that does not begin or end with me. :hatsoff:

 

[Idaho Ron]

That has nothing to do with the question! I'm not asking a .50 vs .54 prb question, I'm asking for reports from those who have any kind offirst hand experience of using or observing the use of .50 prb on elk.

I will try to bore you with a story.
I had a late season ML hunt in Island Park Idaho, about 20 years ago. A friend and I were working our way up the mountain and we were going to meet on "our" ridge at about noon. I got up my draw a ways and ran into tracks, soon I found man tracks, and not long after that I found where he had shot an elk. I knew that I had not heard the shot but in the snow shots can be muffled. I figured that since the elk were probably gone I might try to help the guy get his drug out. I followed the tracks for what seemed like forever.
Then I found the hunter. I talked to him a bit and asked him if I could help and he gladly accepted. We pushed on, and the snow got deeper, and the cow went higher. When I asked him where he shot her he said, in the chest with a 50 cal PRB. He thought the shot was just a little under 100 yards. Well as we tracked her we would find a spot of blood here and there but we followed mostly tracks in the deep powdery snow. I could tell the hunter was about done. Soon he turned to me and said I’m through. I just can’t go any more. I said what about the cow? He said there is no way I am going to finish this. If you want her you can have her, then he turned and headed back down the mountain.
I missed meeting my buddy on “our “ ridge, and he knew that if I didn’t show it was because I was after elk. About 1:00 I got sight of her. She was moving through the trees. I gave her a mew on the cow call and she stopped. I hit her with a 310 gr Sabot and I saw the bullet punch all the way through. I reloaded and got one more shot. Again the bullet punched through. Later I found that the PRB had hit the shoulder and stopped. The blade was cracked, but the ball had not busted through. One of my bullets hit a rib but missed the rib going out. The second never hit any bone, and it smoked through.
It is my thinking that the cow was slightly quartering to the hunter, and the shoulder blade would have been covering a lot of the vitals. Snow had covered the wound and balled up. The temperature was below zero in the day. The hair had a fair bit of blood frozen to it. All of that led to a very tough recovery. If there would have been no snow the tracking would have been almost impossible.
I don’t know the load he used other than a 50 cal PRB. Up to that point I had been using PRB’s for small game. After that hunt I never even thought about using a PRB for big game. Ron

 

[highbrow]

"Ya really gotta kill a big elk and then stand over it all alone and far from camp or road to really appreciate their size."



Even more true at sunset.

 

[John Wasmuth]

My .50 load is a .490 hornady rb, .20 wonderlube patch, 95 grains of FFg Goex. Killed two elk, 3 red deer, and a bison with that load. none of em went very far. But I am picky about my shots, I stay off the shoulder blade.

 

[tg]

"it all alone and far from camp or road to really appreciate their size"

Not so sure appreciate is the feeling
that has come over me :shocked2:

 

[longcruise]

I have used the .50 on three Elk in the past, they were not huge bulls but twl were good sized cows and one a large calf, none went more than 50 yds untill they laid down, I ythink one is best off to get close or wait for a close shot to take out the lungs, and not by trying to bustup the shoulder bones, many have used this load with good results out past 100 yds,

Now, that's what I was looking for! A big cow can be every bit as difficult to kill as a bull. Seen many herds where the lead cow was bigger than all the others including the bulls. FWIW, most of my elk be they ml or those other kinds of guns have been under 50 yards, and thats cause like yourself I hunt them in the thick stuff.

do this dream hunt to satisfy you incessant demand to know everything I have and have not done.

Asking if you have done the thins upon which you give advise is not out of order in any way, IMO.

Give a choice between using a .50 or a .54, I would use the .54 caliber MLer for elk.

Me too, and that is exactly what I do. However, I'm always interested in learning from the experience of others.

I will try to bore you with a story.

Not boring at all. I sure would like to know what his powder charge was.

My .50 load is a .490 hornady rb, .20 wonderlube patch, 95 grains of FFg Goex. Killed two elk, 3 red deer, and a bison with that load. none of em went very far. But I am picky about my shots, I stay off the shoulder blade.

Thanks for posting that, it's the kind of info i was looking for.

"Ya really gotta kill a big elk and then stand over it all alone and far from camp or road to really appreciate their size."



Even more true at sunset.

Aye. It can get worse, one guy in our camp some years back realized he was watching the sun go down in the East! :shocked2:

Thanks to all of you who posted these .50/elk results.

 

[crockett]

I'm glad to get the information on a 50 PRB killing elk if given a broadside shot, that the ball will usually go through both lungs if the range is under 100 yards. Nothing like real life experiences. A lot of stuff in the hunting magazines would make you think a modern 30-06 isn't really up to doing the job.
I'm mostly interested in the mountain man era and at least in the early years they used flint lock long rifles, or "Kentucky" types. On some of these 50 caliber is about as large as some kits offer (Like a Dickert).
In any event, I don't think there is a perfect projectile for all situations. A hard projectile that penetrates deeply might have less expansion, anotherprojectile of soft lead may more easily expand but be unable to bust through shoulder bones, etc. Conicals maintain velocity better at a long range but from what everyone is saying herein on a 75 yard shot a PRB shot though the lungs of an elk is fine. Let's face it, there are plenty of stories of Elk being hit with modern cartridges and running off a long way.
Now, in my situation, over 100 yards with open sights is a long shot. Put me on a target range with a bench and sand bags and a known distances and a stationary target and a target that's black and white, and a shade over head.....and OKAY I'll shoot farther but in a hunting situation FOR ME- I think I ought to limit my shots to 75 yards or so. Therefore a PRB ought to be okay unless all I have is a shoulder shot.

 

[tg]

I got to the pont that I kept 75 uds my limiye no matter what rifle I was usimng due to accuiracy constancy, (eye growing old) i gave up the cenerfire knowing I was going to play a short range game, there is a real rush slipping around a small hill and crawling up behind a snag hoping the elk is wher you think they will be especialy when the Elk is 20 yds away instead of 60-70, the only thing that beat that was when I got up on a nice spike just to see if I could as I had not got an Elk tag that year and was hunting deer with my .40 ML when I peeked over the log he was less than 10 yds away, I stood up and he just stood there quartered towarda me for at least ten seconds, by then I had talked to my self rather
unkindly about not buying an elk tag that year
the saving grace was as I wandered around the area and worked my way mumbling to my self back to my truck a nice fork horn buck stepped out abou 30 ygs away and fell to a .395 ball, it did not make up for the Elk but helped.

 

[bingo1952]

I got to the pont that I kept 75 uds my limiye no matter what rifle I was usimng due to accuiracy constancy

What language is that? Gaelic maybe?
:rotf: :v

 

[Ron LaClair]

I shot this moose back in 79 with a .62 Jaeger rifle loaded with 200gr's 2FF and patched RB. Distance was 50yd's going straight away, ball went full length and stopped under the hide in the brisket.

These two deer were taken with one shot, .62 smooth bore loaded with 80gr's 2FF patched .590 RB from 30yd's. Ball went through both deer and stopped just under the hide of the 2nd deer.

Recently shot this buffal with 2 guns, a .62 Jaeger rifle loaded with 110gr's 2FF and 600 PRB, second shot was with the .62 smooth bore 80gr's 2FF .590PRB. Distance was 75 and 80 yd's penetration was complete with both shots, through ribs and out the other side.

I also have a couple .54's that shoot RB's....fot large game I go with the big bores but I think the 50 or .54 would do the job on big critters with good shot placement. JMHO

 

[Ron LaClair]

The buffalo

Buffalo's ribs

 

[R.J.]

I'm gaining a new respect for the bigger bore muzzleloaders. This is some useful info here for sure. I'm also pretty well convinced that the rifle I build this summer is going to be a .54. I was leaning toward the .50 in a fast twist to shoot the BullShop conicals I ordered for my other rifle. OK, I'll own up to it. The other rifle is a Knight DISC Extreme. No offense intended in any way. I feel better I got that off my chest. You see, I am playing the preference point game in a couple western states. The best way to get to go Elk hunting on a regular basis, is to drop back to archery, or muzzleloader equipment. Unless you want to share the country with bunches of other hunters in the more open seasons. That being said,I was feeling pretty good about the .50 Knight. Until now. How much difference can there be between a .50 sidelock shooting 90 or 100gr of loose powder, and a .50 inline shooting 90 or 100gr of pyrodex,777, or the like? Now I'm concerned about the terminal performance of the .50 inline. Since Colorado limits you to open sights,loose powder and full bore bullets, Maybe the .54 GPH would have been a better first choice. I messed with my first muzzyloader back in the early 80s. We thought (at least in PA) that the .50 was king. The .54 was over kill. Perhaps on whitetail, butI'm wondering about the Elk I am trying to draw tags for. What's a feller to do.

 

[longcruise]

If you are going to shoot slugs, I'd stay with a .50. It's more than adequate for elk. A .54 GPH with conicals is going to be unpleasant to shoot due to recoil (persoanlly, i find a .50 with conicals pretty unpleasant too!). A .50 GPH would make more sense, IMO. And, you would have the option in the future of adding a .54 drop in round ball barrel if you chose.

An ideal slug gun for elk, IMO, would be a .45 shooting a 350 to 450 grain bullet. But, given your knowledge of CO ml regs, you already know it would not be legal.

 

[texcl]

I shot a very large ND deer with a .62prb and hit every large bone I possibly could including the shoulder blade ribs and a femur. I could hear the ball wizzing off to never never land crashing through the brush as it went after exiting the deer. If I draw an elk tag this year I'll take it with a .58 prb. Some mournings I'll have 50 elk standing in my driveway, but no stinking tag.