Ball Stuck

This thread is turning into a slap stick comedy script real quick. I swear. If the ball won't pull out and ya can't get enough powder in there and you can't get it out with a CO2 discharger. Pull the breech and push it out with your ramrod. Not a problem. I surely would not recommend filling your barrel with grease. That would be messier than pulling the breech plug. Just send me the derned gun and I will fix it for you or give me a email and I will send you a phone number and I will talk you through the process of pulling the plug. It is easy as eating mom's apple pie. I can understand the hesitation if it is your first time. PT me if you want my help.

 

[roundball]

"...I surely would not recommend filling your barrel with grease..."

That was my initial thinking also until I did it...and it's obvious from your statement that you've never personally done it...I can tell you without question that it's simple, and not a mess at all.

After the object is pushed out of the bore, simply run a dry patch down bore and it forces all the grease right back out through the vent or nipple seat opening...then just clean the bore like you would if you had just returned from a range session.

:thumbsup:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Clean it out with kerosene or diesel fuel.

It works great. More than coincedence that God made persussion nipples and Zirk fittings with the same threads? I think not! I even have a slightly angled fitting that gives me clearance for the grease gun nozzle. Cost like $1.38 at a hardware store.

I have also pulled a breech and wished for the rest of the time I had owned that rifle that I had not. The seam and resulting bugger marks from the wrench pressure never went away, and that was with the T/C breechplug fitting to hold it securely. :-(

 

[Many Klatch]

Hey Mudd, I pick up any screw tips that I can find at rendezvous and gun shows. After about 25 years of this I have all kinds of sizes with all kinds of screw threads that will fit almost any ram rod.

Many KLatch

 

[Geraldo]

The few dryballs I've had I just shot out. That also worked when the tip of ramrod and cleaning jag broke off in the barrel. Took a few tries, but I shot that out as well.

 

[Dphar]

"...I surely would not recommend filling your barrel with grease..."

That was my initial thinking also until I did it...and it's obvious from your statement that you've never personally done it...I can tell you without question that it's simple, and not a mess at all.

After the object is pushed out of the bore, simply run a dry patch down bore and it forces all the grease right back out through the vent or nipple seat opening...then just clean the bore like you would if you had just returned from a range session.

:thumbsup:

Much easier and faster to just shoot it out. 10-15 grains of powder will do for most calibers. If the gun is properly made getting this much through the vent is no problem. I have used dry grass stems to work FFFFG through the vent when I didn't bother to get out my wire pick.
Can't imagine water with a little wetting agent cutting the grease at the breech. This is all I use for BP.

Dan

 

[roundball]

"...I surely would not recommend filling your barrel with grease..."

That was my initial thinking also until I did it...and it's obvious from your statement that you've never personally done it...I can tell you without question that it's simple, and not a mess at all.

After the object is pushed out of the bore, simply run a dry patch down bore and it forces all the grease right back out through the vent or nipple seat opening...then just clean the bore like you would if you had just returned from a range session.

:thumbsup:

Much easier and faster to just shoot it out. 10-15 grains of powder will do for most calibers. If the gun is properly made getting this much through the vent is no problem. I have used dry grass stems to work FFFFG through the vent when I didn't bother to get out my wire pick.
Can't imagine water with a little wetting agent cutting the grease at the breech. This is all I use for BP.
Dan

Dan, you can't just jump into the middle of a thread and pass judgement on something you know nothing about...you have to read a whole thread to understand context...of course it's easier to shoot things out of a bore...EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT.

The grease hydraulic type method is just one alternative that was being discussed if the obvious ones can't or won't work for some reason.

Since I have personal hands on experience doing it recently I can assure you without question that steaming hot water with a squirt of dishwashing detergent gets the bore & breech squeaky clean in no time just like it always does when I clean a barrel that way after a range session...that's what hot water and dishwasing detergent is designed for...to cut through/clean grease off of dishes, pots, and pans.

 

[Dphar]

Dan, you can't just jump into the middle of a thread and pass judgement on something you know nothing about...you have to read a whole thread to understand context...of course it's easier to shoot things out of a bore...EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT.

The grease hydraulic type method is just one alternative that was being discussed if the obvious ones can't or won't work for some reason.

Since I have personal hands on experience doing it recently I can assure you without question that steaming hot water with a squirt of dishwashing detergent gets the bore & breech squeaky clean in no time just like it always does when I clean a barrel that way after a range session...that's what hot water and dishwasing detergent is designed for...to cut through/clean grease off of dishes, pots, and pans.

ANYONE who cannot shoot a ball out at the time it was loaded has a problem...
The gun is improperly made and its impossible to get powder behind the ball, in the case of percussion guns has no nipple wrench or in the case of a flintlock he is using FFG for prime and lacks the intelligence to grind it finer.
Stuck balls are ALWAYS fouling or lube related or have been upset by hammering (this will really stick them). If a fouling based problem simply dump some water in the bore and let it set for 10 minutes it will invariably come unstuck.
But you cannot shoot it out since the water will pass around the ball in most cases. If the shooter has a puller it is then possible to pull the ball by first pushing it down perhaps an 1/8" if its not hard on the breech already. SOMETIMES they are really stuck to the point they will not pull easily. Thus I recommend shooting them out if at all possible.
If contaminating the powder is an issue, ball stuck part way while loading, use less water and dump it out after 5-10 seconds leaving the gun muzzle down. The ball should be movable in a few minutes. The shooter should then rethink his loading process or patch lube, or learn to wipe the bore when loading starts to get difficult.
My take, based on about 40 years of gunsmithing as a hobby and professionally is that pumping a barrel full of grease is a Rube Goldberg solution to a simple problem.
Its goofy stuff like this, and the response I often get my opinion of wacky ideas, that make me not even respond to a lot of what I see on various shooting sites.

I would further point out that using hot water for cleaning invariably browns the inside of the barrel and is poor policy. When I lap a barrel I wash out the oil based compound with solvent.
I would also point out that some 1/4" zerks are 1/4x27 PIPE THREAD. The 1/4x28 types are invariably a TAPER thread as well and I DO NOT recommend screwing a taper thread into a non-tapered hole. If you enlarge the threads you may experience "blown nipple syndrome". An event that sometimes results in people converting to flintlock ignition.
If you want to continue to give advice of this caliber go for it.
I will refrain from commenting on this further.

Dan

 

[Stumpkiller]

I've never had a ball stuck I couldn't pull with a threaded ball-puller jag.

The two cases I did have problems were a bronze brush that pulled off the threaded base (it was swaged into an aluminum base). That one I had to remove the breech.

The other bad one was a dry patch on a jag in a fouled bore. It stuck tight and I knew I'd shear it right off the pin trying more pull or bugger up the 3" of exposed rod. Rather than shoot it I tried the grease solution (which I think I read in MuzzleBlasts back then). I used the grease and Zirk to loosen that one and it worked great. I only had to squeeze in enough to get it started - maybe 2" of grease in the bore. The Zirk was a thumb screw fit into the nipple threads and snugged up with a wrench. That was in maybe 1984 and that rifle (a T/C Renegade) is still is with me and no ill effects in the nipple or elsewhere from the experience.

I learned two things: only use brushes with the wire threaded through the base (or don't use brushes) and NEVER dry patch a barrel. That was long before forums and most muzzleloaders were self-taught hereabouts. Roundball also tipped me that I could have retrieved that brush by forcing a copper pipe down the bore to trap it. D'oh!

 

[sniper68]

My take, based on about 40 years of gunsmithing as a hobby and professionally is that pumping a barrel full of grease is a Rube Goldberg solution to a simple problem.

I would also point out that some 1/4" zerks are 1/4x27 PIPE THREAD. The 1/4x28 types are invariably a TAPER thread as well and I DO NOT recommend screwing a taper thread into a non-tapered hole.
Dan:applause: :thumbsup:

48 grease fittings on an old U.S. issued Willy's Jeep. :wink: I now about grease guns and fittings. It just dawned on me about the different thread size, I found that out(circa 1960's) by trying to plug a tie rod end with a 1/4-28NC, cause the grease fitting was missing. :redface: :shake:
Thru the years I have pulled quite a few stuck ball(only a couple were mine!). A couple with a puller, a real pain. The rest I shot out with no problem what so ever.
A few were dry balls, including mine, but most were from NO patch lube(rookies!!) and most were the user trying to shoot ONE too many without wiping the bore. What I ain't never figured out is, no matter how many times you can shoot with out swabbing, you still have to be getting some residue build up in the chamber area. Especially with these funky patent breech and similar set ups.I feel that should be addressed every 3 to 10 shots or so. Called preventive maintenance! :grin:

 

[Leatherbark]

Pumping the ball out with grease would be difficult to do with the Shenendoah anyway as I'll bet it has a .6mm-1 CVA type thread......Is there such a Zerk beast? If it wont shoot out for a reason, I'd pour some good penetrate down the barl and let her soak a while......You would think that that would release the patches hold for pulling.....Does the Shenendoah have the same breech plug that the old CVA's had?

 

[kevsworld]

I just did this at the range (twice)yesterday...{stupid am I} the ball puller was useless, my son was not strong enough to hold the gun or rod as I pulled him all over the place.

The range worker, a flinter, had me pull the nipple, {percussion) and feed 20-25 Gr. of powder behind the ball. I used my pick then turned the gun sideways to tap it down. It worked! shot it right out.

He stated he has done this with his flint rifle, but he has to use his pick and feed 1 grain at a time in, and it sucks.

 

[roundball]

He stated he has done this with his flint rifle, but he has to use his pick and feed 1 grain at a time in, and it sucks.

Sounds like he does not have a removable vent liner on his flinter. On flinters with removable vent liners it's easy...just pour in some powder, replace the vent, and shoot it out.

 

[sniper68]

He stated he has done this with his flint rifle, but he has to use his pick and feed 1 grain at a time in, and it sucks.

:hmm: Would you mind telling us a method that DOESN'T suck ????? :blah:

 

Pull the breech and poke it out. :blah:

 

[plumberroy]

we have grease zerts in about 75-100 different threads at work from press fit to3/8 pipe thread including many metrics straight and tapered threads. I never had to use grease to remove a ball but did use it to unstick a piston in an old briggs 1.5 h.p. motor.I bought a half a$$ put together kentucky rifle kit many years ago[late 70's] that had something in the barrel puller or patch worm got nothing I popped several caps on the nipple worked about 10 grains of powder down the drum put the nipple back and fired it at a wood pile got about an inch of damp paper towel.I took it apart redid some what right and used it for a long time
Roy

 

[Dphar]

He stated he has done this with his flint rifle, but he has to use his pick and feed 1 grain at a time in, and it sucks.

Sounds like he does not have a removable vent liner on his flinter. On flinters with removable vent liners it's easy...just pour in some powder, replace the vent, and shoot it out.

Unless the vent is very small, under .050-.060" its actually pretty easy and might take 2 minutes with FFFFG powder.
Removing "removable" liners is a poor idea. If they are easily removable they probably are leaking gas/fouling into the threads. I have seen loose liners actually gas cut the threads.

Dan

 

[Geraldo]

Would you mind telling us a method that DOESN'T suck ?????

The least sucky method is to pay attention while loading your rifle. Powder first...then bullet. :blah:

 

[roundball]

He stated he has done this with his flint rifle, but he has to use his pick and feed 1 grain at a time in, and it sucks.

Sounds like he does not have a removable vent liner on his flinter. On flinters with removable vent liners it's easy...just pour in some powder, replace the vent, and shoot it out.

Removing "removable" liners is a poor idea. If they are easily removable they probably are leaking gas/fouling into the threads. I have seen loose liners actually gas cut the threads.
Dan

Dan, you've evidently had a real bad run of luck with your muzzleloading...removing removable vent liners is simple, very practical, and doing so does not cause them to "leak gas". I've done it for years every time I clean a Flintlock and reinstall them with fresh bore butter lube...3 rifles in particular have probably had it done a couple hundred times each, never a problem...no different than my caplocks.

You have to realize that a stainless steel removable vent liner is no different than a stainless steel nipple. Both the vent and the nipple seats are drilled & tapped in the same block of steel used for breechplugs, and the stainless steel threads on a nipple are no different than the stainless steel threads on a vent liner.

And it is common practice to remove nipples as part of the cleaning practice on caplocks...no different with removable vent liners in Flintlocks.

:thumbsup:

 

[sniper68]

:hmm: Good point, kinda hard ta argue.... :surrender: :grin: