Ballistol picking up brown in bore?

[Ames]

NOTHING cuts beeswax except a bore brush or in your case hemp rope.

Easy now. Bees wax has a melting point in the mid 140's. Boiling water is 212. Not advocating pouring boiling water down a barrel every cleaning, but if its caked inside the bore there are more ways to get it out.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Everyone has their own way of doing things, and they almost-always conflict. There isn't really any one "good" way to do things.

This is true, but if your way doesn't work then you need to reevaluate it.
My methods work very well for me and I don't use Ballistol either. Many people do, and that's great but if your method isn't working for you then you have to examine every aspect of it.

 

[coloradoclyde]

When I run a patch with ballistol down the bore I’ll get the brownish residue. IT IS NOT RUST. It is burned on patch lube - especially wonder lube . No one ever mentions this. Especially patches with lube that contain beeswax. NOTHING cuts beeswax except a bore brush or in your case hemp rope. Just a thought.

This is very odd. I wasn't aware wonder lube contained beeswax.
I use beeswax lube and never get brown, I also never use ballistol, or a bore brush. No rust, nor wax residue.
I must be doing something right, as opposed to something wrong.

I'm always fascinated by how other people clean their muzzleloaders and the problems they encounter.

 

[Omahkapi'si]

I started stubbornly sticking to old ways with other guns. Hoppes and REM oil.
Poor results. Switched to water and REM oil. Had some misfires maybe the oil not all out. Switched to water, alcohol and Ballistol and no issues with many many range trips.

So like others say...see what works for you.

 

[azmntman]

My method is the best. Howsoever....I hate to clean calibers under .45....I seem to always get residue on patches after they show up clean? .50 and larger I have it down.

 

[user 50061]

OP what powder were you using? What type of lube on your patches?

2Fg Goex, and from what I understand Goex is a "dirty" powder. I also don't use lubed patches, or patches at all for that matter.

From what I understand, shooting patched round balls out of a smoothbore isn't really all that historically accurate, and I am trying to get a feel for how things were done "back then".

My loading is powder charge (I am at 80 grains of 2Fg right now, out of a 20 ga barrel) -> .600 roundball -> rolled up ball of hemp-rope fibers.

When I run a patch with ballistol down the bore I’ll get the brownish residue. IT IS NOT RUST. It is burned on patch lube - especially wonder lube

This would make sense, but I am not using patch-lube. Maybe I am not getting all the oil out of the barrel before I shoot? I am using 70% rubbing alcohol to clean the bore before I shoot, and run patches soaked in that down the bore until they come out clean.

 

[Crow-Feather]

So, I shot my trade-gun today.

I like to clean right after shooting at the range, to pick up most of the stuff, then give do a more thorough job when I get home.

Both times, I filled the barrel with water (cold at the range, then warm at home), let it sit for a few minutes, then poured the water out, swabbed the barrel with more wet patches until they came out clean, then ran dry patches until they came out dry.

Just now, as I finished up the cleaning, I applied some Ballistol to a patch and ran it down the bore. Said patch came out with a brown ring like it was picking up rust, even though the water I poured out of the barrel was clean and clear and the patches I swabbed were clean.

Is this just what Ballistol does? Or should I run a brush down the bore?

EDIT: Just ran a big ol' chunk of unspun hemp rope, my stand-in for tow, with some more ballistol applied, down the bore, pulled it out by a piece of string, and repeated this a few times. The bore is much shiner now when viewed by eye with a flashlight, so I guess that is what I am doing from now on...

The patch down the bore smears the Ballistol onto the bore and the bore will look dull with a coating of Ballistol on it. The tow scrapes the Ballistol off the bore thus a brighter bore. I have used T/C bore butter on my bores for about 30 years, When I check the bore several months later, The patch will come out brown. when I look down the bore, it is perfect. I have rifles that I have had for 15 years. Always perfect bores. Even though the patch comes out brown several months later.

 

[BadDaditood]

Call me a rebel but I pull the barrel and squirt a little Black Solve down, enough to wet the 2 inches or so where the powder charge fouling is untouched by a patched ball.
I let it soak breech down for 1min 47secs then stick it in a bucket of cold water and pump a patch till water comes up the muzzle, hits the muzzle guide and sprays black water all over me, the ceiling, the laundry, the workbench, etc. Replace patch and repeat.
Next I dry it out (and me) then leave a thin coat of oil inside and out. Finally I mop the floor, the ceiling, the workbench etc.
At the range a friend handed me his T/C pistol with a broken stock (are there any UNbroken ones left?!?)
It’s not repairable so I decided to restock it and tell him I “had to add some wood”
Problem is I’m a little short on Eye of Newt... my supplier, you know, the old lady with the hairy wart growing out her nose, is not returning my emails....

 

[user 50061]

Do it all at once,

A final question: should I do this cleaning at the range, or wait until I get home?

 

[Ames]

Home. You will do a more thorough job at home.

 

[user 50061]

Home. You will do a more thorough job at home.

That is what I figured, but my main concern was leaving residue in the bore for the half-hour drive home from the range. This was why I tried to get as much out of the bore at the range.

If that half-an-hour isn't an issue, the next time I go to the range I will leave the cleaning for home.

 

[Omahkapi'si]

I flush with alcohol at the range, dry patch and then clean at home.

 

[user 34300]

Ballistol contains medicinal grade mineral oil, alkaline salts of oleic acid, several alcohols, Benzyl Acetate and an oil from vegetal seeds. The mineral oil is unchlorinated and conforms to the specifications of US Pharmacopeia XX. This is off the Ballistol MSDS.

There is no magic to it. Alcohols, emulsifier, and the mineral oil. You can get mineral oil at the pharmacy. Pretty sure the stinky part is benzyl alcohol. The important part is oil. Oil is good for lubing and preserving. Water is good for dissolving the various fouling constituents. They are not converted in to acids or anything else, just dissolved like the sugar in your coffee.

To get rid of the water it is easy to swab it out with a patch. I am an over achiever so I use 100# iso propyl alcohol to dilute the remaining water after dry patching. I then blow the barrel out with air. For preservative I use whatever oil or grease I have handy. Usually that is Fluid Film. But it really does not matter much. For long term storage is may matter, I use LPS-3 or real cosmoline.

There you go one more way to to the same thing. The main thing is to use something with water to remove the fouling then use an oil or grease to preserve. We seem to over complicate this simple job.

 

[Ames]

If that half-an-hour isn't an issue, the next time I go to the range I will leave the cleaning for home.

Don't worry about the half hour. They used to go for days with people shooting at them.
Enjoy the sport!

 

[Siringo]

This is very odd. I wasn't aware wonder lube contained beeswax.
I use beeswax lube and never get brown, I also never use ballistol, or a bore brush. No rust, nor wax residue.
I must be doing something right, as opposed to something wrong.

I'm always fascinated by how other people clean their muzzleloaders and the problems they encounter.

I didnt mean to imply WL had beeswax. It doesnt.

 

[Woody Morgan]

I clean my rifle while driving home from the range.
Keeps the tailgaters back aways.

wm

 

[.36Rooster]

It's what letting water soak in a barrel does.

By letting water soak in the barrel you convert salts to acids. Soaking your barrel in acids attacks the metal causing rust.

He's right. It also converts them to bases, which are also corrosive. It is not the best idea to soak in water for sure.

However, I do bore brush and rinse with boiling water until the barrel is too hot to touch. One quick immediate dry swab and all remaining moisture vaporizes quickly enough on the surface of the near-boiling-hot-temp barrel.

My way still gives you the same problem though, but it lessens the extent to which it occurs. It's definitely better than soaking, as far as rust goes: because the hot barrel just dries so fast, it means it is in contact with water for a shorter time period giving much less time for oxidation. I'd be lying through my teeth though if I told you oxidation isn't occurring though. Any time a water molecule comes in contact with a metal, it steals an electron... and if there is any oxygen present, it rapidly lends the metal proton its electrons back leaving you with a metal oxide, which accounts for your patch color, Since iron oxide is red, and iron is the metal in your barrel.

 

[.36Rooster]

I flush with alcohol at the range, dry patch and then clean at home.

This is a very good solution to the water problem, as alcohol evaporates much more rapidly than water. It evaporates about as fast on a cool barrel as water does on a heated one.

 

[toot]

Swab with unicorn urine. Dry with pixie dust and lube with toad saliva. It's just that simple people.

I wish good luck with your new gun as you get to know each other.

hey, you left out the BLACK CAT HAIR!

 

[qz2026_1]

Interesting discussion.. When I first started shooting BP rifles about 20 years ago, I would remove the barrel and clean the barrel in the set tub. Looking back on that, that probably wasn't the wisest method. Fortunately I never screwed up any of the stocks removing the pins so much. Then, I started shooting a lot of WWII military surplus rifles, especially Russian/German. And the surplus ammo all had corrosive primers. Not the same build up of powder residue but certainly a good amount of corrosive salts. When I shoot these guns I take a plastic Pepsi bottle of water with me. When I'm done shooting a particular gun, then while the bore is still fairly hot I pour the water through the breech. The rule of thump in the smokeless community is hot to boiling water is best to (1) loosen residue and (2) to wash out the salts. The some dry patches to remove any moisture. Actually the warm barrel eliminates any moisture remaining. Then a patch with Hoppes or CLP until I get home and can thoroughly clean the rifle. At this point there is no rush to clean the rifle since the corrosive salts have been removed.

Now, I've started shooting BP again. I see BP maintenance as very similar. The longer you wait to remove the salts from the barrel you are risking fairly rapid corrosion in the bore. I would disagree, however, with the use of cold water. But, I do nothing too much different here. While the bore is still pretty warm, I'll pour water in the barrel (touch hole plugged) and let it sit long enough to loosen the carbon residue. I don't even think "a couple of minutes..." - maybe 30 seconds. Pour it out, Run patches (even a nylon brush) until the patches are mostly clean. Fill the barrel one or two more times to rinse any remaining salts out with the last rinse unplugging the touch hole.. Then, after using patches to dry the bore, some Hoppes or Barricade or CLP (or whatever your preferred lube is) patches. My purpose is not a thorough cleaning just the removal of the salts and protecting the bore until I can clean the gun. That said, there isn't much that needs to be done except detail cleaning after I get home. I'll use a moistened rag to do an initial clean of the lock and pan as well too. I suppose with BP, I have a sense of urgency... But, really, with any gun who's ignition source leaves corrosive salts behind I have a sense of urgency. As for what methods are best... it's up to you. Just get those salts out of the barrel ASAP. And the best way to do that is with good old water - God's perfect solvent.