balls and bullets-- hardness!

[Idaho Ron]

In the past I have reported lead hardness tests.
Since I had a couple of boxes of PRB's dug out I got to wondering what the hardness was on them.
I also did a couple of Maxi balls and Maxi hunters, and a couple of Hornady Great plains 410's. I used a cabin tree lead hardness tester. The cabin tree uses a dial indicator gage.

Pure lead is ranked 5 BHN. Wheel weights are ranked. 12.5 Lead shot is ranked 13 and lino type is 22 BHN. This info is given just to use as a reference nothing more. The readings on the dial leave a little space for interrupting the actual BHN.

Speer .495 PRB was .027 on the dial, about 2 to 3 BHN.

Hornady .490 PRB was .031 on the dial, a solid 3 maybe a bit more.

The TC maxi ball and the Maxi hunter were both the same in hardness. .024 on the dial,
about 2 BHN.

The Hornady Great plains bullet was .029,
about 2 maybe a pinch higher but under 3

I got a couple of ingots from a friend. From the stamp I am sure that these are plumbers lead. A while back I tried to contact a few local plumbing supply stores and the girls behind the counter said they didn't know what I was talking about. I gave up on trying to locate "new" plumbers lead and went with Rotometals for new lead. ANY WAY! The old plumbers ingots hardness. there were two 5 pound ingots.

#1 was .031 an that is a 3 BHN
#2 was .038 and that is about a 6 BHN

The interesting thing was the Speer balls. I got those about 10 years ago. Lead has a tendency to harden with age. As a new ball they must have been butter soft. The Hornady balls are about 2 years old. The bullets were all about to 4 years old. I have done tests on fresh poured lead and have seen the bullets from those fresh pours harden over a month or so. It was interesting to see where these older balls and bullets ended up as far as hardness. Ron

 

[larry wv]

Guess I learned something. Didn't know lead hardened as it aged. Glad to see something does :grin: Since pure lead is a 5 how does it get softer? Thanks for the test. Larry

 

[ohio ramrod]

lead oxide is harder than lead, Lead will oxidate if exposed to oxygen ,just as iron will rust.
Aluminum is a "soft" metal, yet aluminum oxide is what many grinding wheels are made of.

 

[larry wv]

Makes sense thanks. :thumbsup: Larry

 

[Idaho Ron]

Guess I learned something. Didn't know lead hardened as it aged. Glad to see something does :grin: Since pure lead is a 5 how does it get softer? Thanks for the test. Larry

Yes to a point. The way the gage works and the hardness scale you can get lead readings that are softer than 5 but again some of that is the reading of the guy doing it. I know that about anything under 5 is various stages of butter soft. Depending on when it was poured it will read a pinch harder with age so a fresh bullit with very soft lead will read below 5 easly.
Some lead is so soft that you have to read it quickly or the sharp point on the gage will ooze into the lead and give a false reading. But when that happens it is butter soft lead. The kind I will buy in a heart beat.
The nice thing about the cabin tree tester is I can take it with me to a guys house to check lead for sale. I have turned down a PILE of cheep lead that I can't use because it is harder than I like. I don't want lead harder than 8 BHN. Ron

 

[rabjr]

Interesting I pretty much use Hornady rounballs almost exclusively and did not exactly know how hard they were.

 

[R.M.]

If the hardness of pure lead is 5 (and it is), then getting readings below that means your tester or technique is flawed. It's impossible to get a true reading below 5 of pure lead.

 

[Idaho Ron]

If the hardness of pure lead is 5 (and it is), then getting readings below that means your tester or technique is flawed. It's impossible to get a true reading below 5 of pure lead.

I won't argue about it but I will point out a couple of things. If you look in the picture you will see that the piece that is pointed goes into the lead that is called the screw point. As the sharp point is shoved into the lead the spring is squeezed and the dial reads. With soft lead you have to read that very quickly. If you don't the spring will push back the lead into the pointed screw end.
In the directions it states "note on pure lead read the dial quickly as the spring is strong and and the point will continue in changing the reading. this isn't a problem with harder alloys"

Soft pure lead is rated at 5BHN. While I think that there can be reading below 5BHN you clearly do not. You are entitled to that thinking. If you want to check around the cabin tree tester is a very accurate tester and many casters are using them. Ron

 

[R.M.]

I have 3 different brands of tester, and they all have problems with pure lead, but as I say pure lead is 5bhn, so any readings below that, are a fault of the tester or the operator.

 

[Idaho Ron]

I am sure it was my fault. Disregard the info above since it is probably wrong. Ron

 

[GreyWhiskers]

Interesting about the lead hardening after a month or so. :hmm: I know that lead alloyed with tin or antimony will harden if dropped hot from the mold into a bucket of water. Thanks for posting your results. GW

 

[ohio ramrod]

Interesting about the lead hardening after a month or so. :hmm: I know that lead alloyed with tin or antimony will harden if dropped hot from the mold into a bucket of water. Thanks for posting your results. GW

Yep if is shot, that is what is called "chilled " shot.

 

[ohio ramrod]

If you want an exact reading it can be a problem for those without an expensive hardness tester. But if all you want to do is a camparison you can make a simple effective tester by using a given lenght of pipe ( PCV will work.) A weight that will fall freely through the pipe, and a hardened steel ball. (like those used in ball bearings, ) Make a frame to hold the pipe a given space over a solid base, place the ball on the sample to be tested, drop the weight on the ball and measure the depth of penetration with a caliper, indicator , or even a simple depth gauge. Smaller balls will penetrate deeper than large balls , so use as small of a ball as your measuring devise will allow. ( For most cases you can just measure accross the "dent" as long as the ball doesn't penetrate more than 1/2 the diameter of the ball. ) To test already cast balls just place the ball on the base and drop the weight and measure the amount of "flatening " with a mic or calipers.

 

[jethro224]

Interesting topic. I've never actually seen one of those testers. Always wondered how they work. How do you know how far to squeeze it?

 

[Trench]

Thanks for the info and taking the time to do the tests.

 

[Idaho Ron]

If you look in the picture from right to left you can see a gold colored wire right in front of the nut. On the nut there is a faint number 4 that the gold pointer is pointing to. The nut has a black arm through it to use to turn the nut. After you turn the nut in the pointed screw will start to engage the lead. Just make the pointed screw touch the lead without moving the needle on the dial indicator. After you get the screw into place turn the nut one full turn. Like I said the nut has index marks so you can make the full turn and go back to the same place. On soft lead you need to read it fast because the pointed screw will sink farther due to the spring. When that happens the lead is softer than 5 BHN in my opinion but maybe not I might be wrong. I have seen some lead that will read .035 on the dial indicator and never move. .035 is the high end of 5 BHN. I have seen some like the samples I just finished that only go up to .027 so that is why I think that some lead is softer than 5 BHN but like I said I might be wrong in how I am interpreting it. I was involved in a test with many other testers. I think it was about 100 guys I can’t remember. We were all sent a small sample of bullets. We all tested them on the exact same day. Our findings were taken and the results were posted. This was on a different forum. The bullets were hard. I am thinking it was wheel weight. Anyway all the testers were then checked by an official lab. I don't remember the exact findings but the Cabin tree testers were very accurate, and the interesting thing was all the guys that had them were very close to each other as far as deciphering the data. While the test sounds like it is hard it is not. While it sounds like it takes forever it actually only takes seconds to do, and I can put an ingot into the tester that is up to 2” thick. I have actually tested an 800 pound piece of lead that was just under 2” thick for a guy. Ron

 

[jethro224]

Thanks for the info :thumbsup:

 

[rabjr]

Hot lead scares the hell outa me, actually anything to do with heat does, as I just can't get out of the way fast enough if theres an accident. So I pay for others to do the melting and casting. :haha: Hornady at the hardness they make their balls for hunting and Beartooth Bullets for anything that might hurt me hardened to 22 BHN with wide meplat's. Doing it this way, I know I have saved my legs/feet from a lot of terrible scares. :haha:

 

[RonT]

Interesting concept. I think that I'll make one of these "redneck" testors for curiosity sake. A 1 1/2" drop tube (PVC?), a steel plate, a steel bar ~1" x ~>6" and some of my plumbers lead, some of my dental lead, and maybe get a few WW's and cast some balls. Maybe the mics will show a different "squish" factor...maybe not.
Since I know from this seasons Whitetail that dental lead flattens out well enough to work, maybe I won't feel bad about mixing the two softer of the three.
R

 

[dyemaker]

I used a Barcol portable tester at work for a few years. I had to log the hardness of aluminum alloy trailer rails. I would have to make several readings sometimes until they averaged out.
:cursing: