Bannock 1832

[Black Hand]

I suspect that you are simply WRONG.

If you feel my information is erroneous, please provide information to support your position - That way everyone learns. Just saying I am wrong doesn't actually prove anything...

 

[George]

Hmmmm... an instructive thread. If I've been keeping up, turns out it is a fact that the ancient Egyptians invented bannock, made with emmer wheat, and always ate it with beer which was contaminated with a heat resistant bug which turned them all into mummies...do I have it right? :wink:

Spence

 

[Black Hand]

:thumbsup:

 

[Black Hand]

https://stravaganzastravaganza.blogspot.com/2012/02/beer-in-mesopotamia-and-egypt.html https://stravaganzastravaganza.blogspot.com/2012/02/beer-in-mesopotamia-and-egypt.html http://www.history.com/news/did-beer-spur-the-rise-of-agriculture-and-politics

 

[Black Hand]

Hmmmm... an instructive thread. If I've been keeping up, turns out it is a fact that the ancient Egyptians invented bannock, made with emmer wheat, and always ate it with beer which was contaminated with a heat resistant bug which turned them all into mummies...do I have it right? :wink:

Spence

Actually, it is more along the lines of grains were ground and baked into bread (bannock) which may/may not have been leavened with natural sourdough starters (Bacteria + Yeast) which was then crumbled into water to make a thin gruel which fermented naturally into a beer-like beverage through the action of environmental microbes which could have been used as an offering to the Egyptian gods when a mummy was interred? buried? entombed?

 

[satx78247]

Speaking of STAPH, when a member of my family got infected with MRSA (an resistant form of Staph), we were told to BOIL everything that the patient had touched (including bed linens, night clothes & tableware) for TEN MINUTES to make it safe to handle, so obviously (at least in the case of MRSA) boiling does kill those micro-organisms.

Of course, the beer made in the western hemisphere wasn't at all like "thin gruel" & nobody got infected from drinking that either.
(Incidentally, I've been served/drank locally-made African "mealie beer" & it goes on fermenting after you've drunk it & generally you get DRUNKER & DRUNKER, for hours after you stopped drinking it. = SOME "mealie beer", which is like thin gruel, ends up as near 20% alcohol. = Causes POWERFUL hangovers, too.)

yours, satx

 

[satx78247]

Numerous "traditional societies" make a similar bread to Bannock, out of all sorts of grains or "grain-like" substitutes & under all sorts of different "names".
(For example, wild rice isn't really rice but instead a distant cousin.)

Sub-Saharan Africans make a similar "quick bread" from a root tuber that is boiled/dried/pounded into "flour". = That bread tastes somewhat like sourdough bread.

yours, satx

 

[Black Hand]

Speaking of STAPH, when a member of my family got infected with MRSA (an resistant form of Staph), we were told to BOIL everything that the patient had touched (including bed linens, night clothes & tableware) for TEN MINUTES to make it safe to handle, so obviously (at least in the case of MRSA) boiling does kill those micro-organisms.

And when your family member touched the previously boiled item - did you not need to boil it again? It is the same with boiled gruel (beer). Boiling kills organisms in the gruel (beer) BUT when you touch it or it comes in contact with environmental contaminants, it is reinoculated with bacteria. A single round of boiling does NOT protect it against further inoculation...

 

[coloradoclyde]

when a member of my family got infected with MRSA

Two of the most effective treatments for MRSA are found in beer today....
Sugar and hops. :grin:

 

[Black Hand]

Of course, the beer made in the western hemisphere wasn't at all like "thin gruel" & nobody got infected from drinking that either.

As previously mentioned, the number of yeast sucking up nutrients and the alcohol produced by the yeast would kill introduced bacteria. It is also a race - introduced harmful bacteria/yeast need to outpace helpful bacteria/yeast to become a problem. If they grow slowly, they could/will be overrun by the desirable microbes that have shorter generation times...

 

[coloradoclyde]

Beer today is filtered for taste reasons....not for the prevention of infection.....

"Lagering" is a cold filtering process....The low temperature causes the yeast to fall out of suspension and take proteins and other gunk with it....
Lagering also works with ales....And the Egyptians were keeping their beer cool 3000 years ago.. We have writings telling us this...

 

[Black Hand]

Beer today is filtered for taste reasons....not for the prevention of infection.....

http://www.probrewer.com/library/filtration/brewery-filter-applications/
Generally there are four main clarification stages including primary filtration, trap filtration, fine filtration and final membrane filtration. Filtration at each stage is for a particular purpose:
1. Primary filtration removes solids and bulk yeast from the beer.
2. Trap filtration removes DE or other process additives
3. Fine filtration may reduce yeast level and removes fine particulates that could foul a final membrane filter.
4. Final membrane filtration removes organisms (bacteria and yeast) that could spoil the packaged beer.
http://www.criticalprocess.com/food/beer.php
Immediately before the beer is bottled, the final filter removes spoilage organisms so that the beer will have long shelf life and can be stored at room temperature. If the correct filter is chosen, a beer with clean color and texture is delivered to consumers. The key is choosing a filter designed to allow flavor elements and color to pass while capturing the bacteria that could cause spoilage.

Filters used for this final step are usually membrane filters with 0.45µm or 0.65µm pore sizes. The filters are designed with membrane structures that will capture the bacteria, but allow desired color bodies and flavor elements to pass. Each brewer chooses based on testing and the nature of the organisms that must be removed.

 

[coloradoclyde]

We're not talking about the same thing.

 

[Black Hand]

We're not talking about the same thing.

That may be.
My comment on filtration addresses the removal of microbes from the beer (and incoming water used in the process). What you describe is clarification, which may also involve filters of some sort...

 

[coloradoclyde]

Yep 0.5 micron filters will remove most microorganism....
Keep in mind the scale that these breweries are brewing on....

99% of the 5000+ breweries in the united states don't filter in that manner.

Also consider the type of beer they brew....Low alcohol, high adjunct, high additive, low hop. high shelf life...


Membrane filtration, pasteurization, centrifugal separation, low alcohol, hop oil extract, adjuncts, and additives are all employed for maximum return on inputs...

 

[Black Hand]

Yep 0.5 micron filters will remove most microorganism....
Keep in mind the scale that these breweries are brewing on....

99% of the 5000+ breweries in the united states don't filter in that manner.

Craft & Microbrew: https://food-beverage.pall.com/en/beer-craft-micro-breweries.html

Might be far more accurate to say some products aren't filtered than to make a blanket statement (bold text) such as the one above.

 

[coloradoclyde]

That's not a "blanket" statement I excluded more than 50 breweries....
Granted! I'm probably off by a couple percentage points....The actual number is probably closer to 300....but that's still close enough to make my point.

 

[coloradoclyde]

You are also forgetting that some styles of beer are purposely NOT filtered....

And don't confuse beer brands with breweries....20 different brands can come out of the same brewery....but that only counts as one brewery.

 

[Black Hand]

I'd be willing to bet that all incoming water that goes into the brewing process in the breweries you mention IS filtered to remove any microbial contaminants.

 

[Black Hand]

You are also forgetting that some styles of beer are purposely NOT filtered....

Addressed in my post above:

Might be far more accurate to say some products aren't filtered...