Bannock 1832

[coloradoclyde]

Corn bannock. :hmm:


Traditional Bannock

Ingredients

Ӣ 2 cups white corn flour
”¢ ½ cups cooked (or non-traditionally canned) kidney beans
”¢ 1 ¾ cups boiling water (to add to mixture)
Ӣ 4 cups boiling water (to cook the bread in)

Recipe
1.Fill a pot with 4 cups of water and begin to boil it while you make the bread.
2.Combine corn flour and kidney beans in a bowl, crushing the beans.
3.Add 1 ¾ cups of boiling water to the flour-bean mixture and mix well.
4.While the mixture is still hot, pat it down immediately with your hands. Form it into one-inch-thick cookie sized disks.
5.Place the disks into the pot and let boil until they float. Take them out and let them cool. Enjoy individually or with a side of soup!

 

[Black Hand]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bannock_(food) http://www.artofmanliness.com/2011/04/04/baking-in-the-wild-how-to-make-bannock-bread/ http://www.canadianliving.com/food/recipe/bannock-1

 

[Loyalist Dave]

5.Place the disks into the pot and let boil until they float. Take them out and let them cool. Enjoy individually or with a side of soup!

Bagel Bannocks?

:haha:

LD

 

[George]

Bagel Bannocks?

Not exactly....'traditional' bagel bannocks, yet.

Rabbie Burns is whirling in his grave. :haha:

Spence

 

[coloradoclyde]

Who doesn't love a good bagel?..... :wink:

 

[Loyalist Dave]

..., true but getting the smoked salmon smell out of my haversack gives me a devil of a time, and if I don't get it out, critters come after me in the woods....mostly feral cats.... :shocked2:

LD

 

[coloradoclyde]

Sounds very HC/PC to me... :wink:

 

[Gene L]

Sounds like bannock is fresh ship's biscuit. Flour, salt, water.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

YES probably true..., toasted over a fire instead of an oven, and tends to be rather larger in diameter, and I've always made mine out of oats....,
OK so an Oat, Ship's Biscuit?

LD

 

[satx78247]

Can you name any bacteria that would normally be found in beer that cannot be killed by boiling.

Btw, at least as early as the reign of KHEPERKARE SENUSRET 1 (1971-1926 BC) boiling was used for beer-making & for sterilizing containers of beer, which were capped after sterilizing.

yours, satx

 

[Black Hand]

I will re-post my response so you can read it again:

Yes - but they had no way to keep the materials sterile after boiling (essentially, all they were doing was making soup). Boiling is also not a guaranteed way to kill all bacteria - some spores are notoriously resistant to heat (chemicals, radiation)...

 

[satx78247]

Should everyone, who reads you original & re-posted comment, presume that you do NOT know of ANY such common bacteria, that would normally be found in beer and/or wine making & that would NOT be killed by boiling??

I ask again: Can you NAME even one such common "boiling proof" bacteria??

Btw, jars/bottles & other similar vessels that are suitable for beer/wine storage will remain essentially STERILE for a very long time if they are carefully "capped" after being "boiled-out".
(FYI, both wine & beer were reportedly consumed by the late Jacques Cousteau & his "crew" in 1954, from "pottery jars" that were "dug up" at Abu Dhabi.)

yours, satx

 

[Black Hand]

Did you happen to miss the part about spores being heat-resistant? These spores are common in the environment, especially in soil. To further clarify, both fungi AND certain bacteria sporulate...

 

[satx78247]

In other words: You CANNOT name even one such common bacteria & do NOT know the correct answer??

yours, satx

 

[Black Hand]

Boiling is a decent way to kill vegetative bacteria but has little to no effect on spores. This is why autoclaves are used - you need heat, pressure and time to kill spores...

 

[Black Hand]

In other words: You CANNOT name even one such common bacteria & do NOT know the correct answer??

yours, satx

Bacteria could include: Staphylococcus spp., Streptococcus spp., Pseudomonas and E. coli (others too) from your skin and soil bacteria (Bacillus spp., Streptomyces spp., Clostridia spp. Pseudomonas and others). These are a few of the common bacteria that could be present, but certainly not an all-inclusive list. Humans and their environment are teeming with bacteria and molds/yeast (and other microbes), all of whom would be happy to take up residence in a warm, nutrient-rich solution....

Any organism that produces spores could survive boiling (in spore form of course). These spores, as well other vegetative bacteria, could be introduced after boiling from dirty hands, vessels, implements or simply by floating into the liquid.

 

[satx78247]

OK. - Now WHICH of those bacteria cannot be killed by extended boiling (or for that matter, baking in a wood-fired oven), as has been routinely done since at least the days of the ancient Egyptians??

yours, satx

 

[Black Hand]

Additional information added which answers your question.

In summary - boiling could kill bacteria/fungi present in the beer (not necessarily spores), but the liquid could be easily re-inoculated after boiling from any number of sources. This issue is addressed today by filtration, cleanliness, sterile vessels, packing/bottling conditions as well as the mildly antibacterial property of hops (none of which the Egyptians had).

 

[satx78247]

IF you are correct (I suspect that you are simply WRONG.), WHY wasn't illness from drinking wine, beer & spirits commonplace in the "days of yore"??
(Generally the WORST "illness" that one gets from drinking alcoholic beverages is drunkenness & a hangover.)

Could the TRUE answer be that the bacteria that are commonplace in ordinary cooking/making of alcoholic beverages aren't of the sort that are spore-forming??

yours, satx

 

[Black Hand]

IF you are correct (I suspect that you are simply WRONG.), WHY wasn't illness from drinking wine, beer & spirits commonplace in the "days of yore"??
(Generally the WORST "illness" that one gets from drinking alcoholic beverages is drunkenness & a hangover.)

Could the TRUE answer be that the bacteria that are commonplace in ordinary cooking/making of alcoholic beverages aren't of the sort that are spore-forming??

yours, satx

We have entered a different discussion, but I will try to address your questions.
With wine (and especially spirits), the alcohol content is higher and kills bacteria/yeasts/molds (even the yeast used to make the wine is eventually killed by its metabolic by-product ethanol).

With Egyptian beer, which from the descriptions, appears to be more of a thin fermented gruel, the prevalent bacteria would likely have crowded out the unfriendly types (much like Lactobacillus does in yogurt/salami/pickles by producing lactic acid which inhibits bacteria/molds). I suspect the mild alcohol content would also help. But as anyone who has spent any time around college dorms, eventually one will see a cup of old beer with growth.

The production of ethanol is primarily accomplished by the action of yeast (Saccharomyces is common), which apparently can also form spores. That said, spores are usually formed under conditions of nutritional privation, assuring survival of the microbe by allowing it to "hibernate" until conditions are favorable for growth.