Bare balls in the backwoods

[Runewolf1973]

So I was thinking about smoothbores and why historically it seems they were typically loaded (as far as we know) bare ball with just wads rather than patched...

Could it be in part because so many of the early guns it seems were only equipped with plain wooden rods without provisions for a ball-puller? I'm just thinking...how would they have pulled a tightly patched round ball out of the bore (dry-balled or bad powder perhaps) with no puller or provisions? Whereas with a wadded ball, all they needed was a piece of wire and they could have just pulled the top wad out and plopped the ball out.

What would you do on the frontier if you dry-balled your patched round ball, or had to get it out for some reason and only had a plain wooden wiping stick with no fittings or ball puller? I think I would just stick to bare balls and wads for peace of mind.

Forgive me, I'm just a noob at this so maybe there are other traditional methods for unloading balls I don't know about.

 

[Brokennock]

Interesting question. I think, and could be misremembering, that I've read of people having success pulling patched balls out of a smoothbore with a spring worm, seems they twisted and work it until the end of the worm caught the patch.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Interesting question. I think, and could be misremembering, that I've read of people having success pulling patched balls out of a smoothbore with a spring worm, seems they twisted and work it until the end of the worm caught the patch.

I never even thought of doing that. Didn't think those little spring deals were that strong. I swear I learn something new every day with this hobby. Now I'm curious if anyone here has actually had to try this and if it worked.

 

[LawrenceA]

I pulled a overshot wad from the bottom of my shotty with a worm.
Not going to talk about how it got there. Bit embarrassing

 

[smo]

If I were on the frontier, I would try working powder into the touch hole and shooting the dry ball out.

Other than that, I don’t see where pulling a patched roundball from a smoothbore would be any more difficult than pulling a patched ball from a rifled gun ... maybe the smoothbore would be easier.

As too the non patched roundball, which is what I shoot in my 16 gauge.
My bore measures .653 and I shoot a .648 or a .642 ball, so after the first shot or two the ball will not just roll out of the barrel due to the fouling in the bore, so I would still either have too shoot it out or pull the ball.

It is my understanding that cloth was a fairly expensive back in the day which could be another reason for shooting an un patched ball.... or maybe like in my case , the gun just shoots them better than a patched ball..

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Historical writings speak of the patch being used only to fill rifled grooves to impart spin on the ball.

 

[Rifleman1776]

thinking about smoothbores and why historically it seems they were typically loaded (as far as we know) bare ball with just wads rather than patched...

My supposition is that most shots not taken in warfare were close range and accuracy was not particularly important. In warfare, accuracy was unimportant as shots were taken at large masses of the enemy. Any ball fired anywhere would hit someone.

 

[Runewolf1973]

If I were on the frontier, I would try working powder into the touch hole and shooting the dry ball out.

Other than that, I don’t see where pulling a patched roundball from a smoothbore would be any more difficult than pulling a patched ball from a rifled gun ... maybe the smoothbore would be easier.

As too the non patched roundball, which is what I shoot in my 16 gauge.
My bore measures .653 and I shoot a .648 or a .642 ball, so after the first shot or two the ball will not just roll out of the barrel due to the fouling in the bore, so I would still either have too shoot it out or pull the ball.

It is my understanding that cloth was a fairly expensive back in the day which could be another reason for shooting an un patched ball.... or maybe like in my case , the gun just shoots them better than a patched ball..

If fouling was preventing the ball from rolling out, could a person not just remove the top wad and then clean the fouling with the ball still in the barrel with water as one would normally clean the barrel? If you did that first, you should be able to plop the ball out after, no?

One other thing... If their guns were anything like mine with the flat bottomed breech, can you even push powder behind the ball once it is seated through the touch hole? I know that in a patent breech this can be done, but I don't know about a flat bottomed breech if it is possible to get powder in there.

 

[SDSmlf]

Whereas with a wadded ball, all they needed was a piece of wire and they could have just pulled the top wad out and plopped the ball out.

Where would they get this piece of wire from?

 

[Runewolf1973]

Where would they get this piece of wire from?

Maybe one of those plain spring patch pullers? If they didn't have one of those, then I guess they couldn't even try pulling the ball out from the patch as was mentioned above. What they could do though, is use a wad like tow or something that is fibrous and could picked out with a cleverly rigged stick. I would try carving some little fishook sorta barbs on the end of a stick and hook onto the wad to pull it out. Maybe even use a stick with some hot pine pitch on the end and push that down. The pitch will harden to the wad and you can pull it out.

 

[hanshi]

I normally shoot patched ball in my smoothbore, but they are not tight loads like I use in rifles. Accuracy is quite good. But shots under 40 or 50 yards do not need that kind of accuracy as has been stated. At 50 yards and under - a very long woodland shot - a bare ball will take deer with no problem. In the flint musket era accuracy wasn't even needed in war, but a high rate of fire certainly was.

 

[LawrenceA]

Because the touch hole was drilled close to the breech face. This meant that the space that exists between the curve of the ball and the breech plug face is where the touch hole leads.
It should be possible to work some powder behind the bullet even if you needed 1 go to get more room for powder. Considering the value of a gun it is something you would spend the time on. I think just a few grains would likely be enough but certainly less than 10 would do it.

Off on a tangent now. What might just work.
On the assumption you could not get powder behind the ball or otherwise remove it then perhaps a series of sharp blows to the muzzle may shift it. Kind of like an inertia bullet puller works.
Otherwise gently heat the barrel till either the wad burns allowing the ball to roll out or the ball melts. Should happen before the steel is damaged or any solder melts but you could protect soldered joints with wet cloth if required.
Or use your mates ball puller.

 

[Belleville]

Would like to hear more experiences of the use of the spring shaped gun worm, wound on the end of a wooden ramrod. I have tried it some, w/o a lot of success. Have not been able to pull a soft lead ball with it? Also after trying to remove a ball, it is very difficult to remove the worm from the wooden ramrod w/o additional tools?

It appears that the most use of a "spring" worm is to hold tow for cleaning and not for removing a ball? Unless held in place with wadding only?

 

[oreclan]

Where would they get this piece of wire from?

Wire especially brass was carried on the frontier for use as snares; whether it was stiff enough to pull a wad is another matter.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Wire especially brass was carried on the frontier for use as snares; whether it was stiff enough to pull a wad is another matter.

Could easily pull out a wad of tow or wasp nest especially if doubled up.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Visit Larry Callahan's web site at Bag Molds .

He makes these ball pullers and tow worms based on historic items, modified for modern thread pitches. The tines on the tow worms can be spread out to be used with any caliber.

Read about them in back issues of "Muzzleloader" Magazine:
January/February 2011
Prime Possibles
Product Review - Ball Puller/Tow Worm pg.7

 

[Bob McBride]

Could it be in part because so many of the early guns it seems were only equipped with plain wooden rods without provisions for a ball-puller?

I think you've hit on it, just the other way around. One reason we're fairly certain they didn't use tightly patched ball is because they didn't equip their rammers for the ramifications (pardon the pun) of tightly patched balls.

 

[tenngun]

Patching a ball seems to have been invented in the “far Germanies’ around 1600. Imported in to America for rifles.
Till then everyone seemsto have wadded a bare ball.
Patching a smoothie is mentioned in the 1840s . It may be that no one thought of it. Maybe a rifle shooter who lost his rifle and had to make do with a smoothie gave it a try earlier.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

So I was thinking about smoothbores and why historically it seems they were typically loaded (as far as we know) bare ball with just wads rather than patched...

I think it's because they observed that with a very closely fit bare ball, they were more accurate than when they used a patch. Without the symmetrical grooves in the barrel, the patch doesn't fold the say way twice in a row.

Could it be in part because so many of the early guns it seems were only equipped with plain wooden rods without provisions for a ball-puller? I'm just thinking...how would they have pulled a tightly patched round ball out of the bore (dry-balled or bad powder perhaps) with no puller or provisions? Whereas with a wadded ball, all they needed was a piece of wire and they could have just pulled the top wad out and plopped the ball out.

Remember that the rifles with the tight fitting, patched ball, only had wooden rammers..., So if the riflemen could pull that ball, so could the smoothbore fellows. You have to drill into the ball itself. Snagging the patching cloth with a worm is just going to get the worm stuck in the barrel too, or perhaps even the whole ramrod.

What would you do on the frontier if you dry-balled your patched round ball, or had to get it out for some reason and only had a plain wooden wiping stick with no fittings or ball puller? I think I would just stick to bare balls and wads for peace of mind.

As others have written, IF you dry-ball the piece, there is enough room to put powder into the breech via the touch hole, and pop out the projectile. It's very similar in sound to a low powered air rifle when this is done..., OR you took the piece along with you, and had to store it until you got hold of the right tool to remove the stuck ball. Being SOL is not a new situation to be found within.

LD

 

[jbwilliams3]

We also forget that our breech plugs are much tighter than period guns. Many references to removing breech plugs to remove stuck balls.