barrel leading

[kingsax26]

Hey all, so i went back to the range with my .32 squirrel rifle and I even took a friend ..and no i wasnt flinching!. and shot 2 sets of 5 shot groups. The first set was with a .310 ball and the 2nd was with a .315 ball... heres my question....what does barrel leading look like on paper? I came across and older article from MUZZLE BLASTS regarding the exact rifle I ahve and barrel leading. He described the same problem I am having! I just cant get a good group...so what does barrel leading look like when you shoot? as I bought this rifle used I ahve no idea what the man before did with it...and my bore light is 5/16 so its an exact fit in the bore... in th article the man unbreached the rifle..im really not wanting to do this..... how do i tell if its leaded and how do i get it out?

this target all the hits are low and left ..ignore the X's in pen

 

[M. De Land]

If your shooting patched balls and the patch is not torn or blown I see no reason to suspect leading.
To check for lead, jag up a tight patch dipped in gum turpentine and run it in and out of your bore a few times. If there is lead in the bore some of it will stick to the patch and show you.
I find Gunzilla will do he same thing and use it a lot to clean my black powder cartridge guns shooting grease bullets. Mike D.

 

[nchawkeye]

You can't look at a group and see barrel leading...

Start with the patches, you are using .010...In my opinion, that is too thin...Move up to .015-.018...Try 3-4 different lubes on each...Keep each one and see what the patch looks like...Post pic, then we can tell you more about the bore, lube, loading, etc...

When you ram the ball home, how does it feel???
Smooth or rough??? Any tight or loose spots???

 

[Rifleman1776]

I have no experience with tiny bore rifles. But, I do have a .32 model cannon and looking at that it seems to me, at some point, thicker patch material might simply make it difficult to cram much fabric into the bore with a ball. I know this is a continuing saga with his rifle.
Does he know the twist in that barrel? If it is a very slow twist that rifle might never find it's sweet spot for accuracy. Some guns just don't shoot well. I commend him for sticking with it and hope he does find a winning ball/patch/lube/load combo for his rifle.

 

[kingsax26]

i have no idea what the twist is....all i know is that it is a DIXIE GUN WORKS tennessee squirrel rifle made my MIROKU....and thats its really pissing me off..lol

 

[Lonegun1894]

Here are two more options for you. First, put some very fine steel wool (OOOO) or copper wool like used to clean pots and pans on your jag and scrub the bore very well, then try shooting again. This is what I use to remove lead from my modern guns bores. And I prefer the copper because it is softer than steel so should minimize what little chance the steel wool has of damaging the bore. The other option is getting some copper remover like is used to remove jacket fouling from modern guns. Follow the directions carefully, as most will say to not leave it in the bore for more than 15-20 minutes. So I would wipe it well and then let the rifle stand muzzle down to make sure you don't miss any in your breech. Clean it out well, and oil the rifle. Then I would take it out to shoot it again and see if this makes any difference. The copper removers aren't advertised as lead removers, but they work for lead also. If nothing else, at least you will KNOW that leading isn't the problem afterwards. However, as has been said, assuming both you and the previous owner both use PRBs, the lead should never contact the bore so leading should be impossible. Best of luck.

 

[Paul_R]

0000 steel wool wrapped around a brass brush is how I delead all my cartridge guns. Never found anything that works better.

 

[ZUG]

First I would clean the bore as suggested by others here. I would then MOVE my target to 25 yds and do my sighting-in. Looks to me like you need to become familiar with your new rifle. Shoot it a lot with different powder charges and patch thickness. Use a rest from a bench - don't file on the sights until you established a GOOD grouping:v . The small calibers can be effected by even a small amount of wind over a long distance.

 

[bpd303]

i have no idea what the twist is....all i know is that it is a DIXIE GUN WORKS tennessee squirrel rifle made my MIROKU....and thats its really pissing me off..lol

I have read several articles about the Mirkou barrels in early rifles. Some were excellent and others were sub-par (read crap). When you run a tight patch down the barrel how does it feel, any roughness? The barrel may be badly pitted and will never group well.

 

[Rusty_Nail]

0000 steel wool wrapped around a brass brush is how I delead all my cartridge guns. Never found anything that works better.

I would add 0000 steel wool around a bore brush 1 size smaller than the bore. Nothing sucks more than getting a brush stuck in a Muzzy Gun!

 

[Lonegun1894]

Rusty is absolutely correct. That is why I said JAG, not brush. Although some people have used brushes successfully.

 

[Paul_R]

Using a brush one size smaller is not bad advice just make sure you use plenty of extra wool to get a really tight fit. Really tight is the key, otherwise you're wasting your time.

In general, when you wrap a brush with steel wool it doesn't have that grabing effect when you reverse direction. Especially if you slather everything with JB paste. I forgot to mention that.

The correct way to wrap a brush is to make a wool "rope" by pulling wool off the pad and putting it between your hands and rubbing you hands together. Just like how you made snakes with play doh when you were a kid. Then you lay the rope between the bristles and follow the spiral. Lay enough rope to exceed well past the brush diameter cuz it will crush.

 

[Leatherbark]

The only way it would be leaded up would be if a previous owner shot some maxi balls in it. It is my experience that a muzzleloader that is leaded up will after it is cleaned as good as you can get it will make a patch saturated with penetrating oil really grey in color when you swab a clean bore. If that bore is clean and not leaded you can take a patch saturated with WD-40 and run it in and out of the bore and it will not change color.

Use Kroil and JB bore paste to make the bore shiny after you use the steel wool

Good Luck

Bob

 

[AWsaddles]

What powder charge are you using? I have a 36 that had the same problem when I first got it. It had a fairly fast twist and shallow rifling. I reduced the powder and accuracy improved greatly. I think my original load was just skipping over some of the rifleing .

 

[Stumpkiller]

J-B Paste (Midsouth Shooters Supply or Brownells) will remove leading without harming the barrel or wearing down nice rifling.

If the rifle was patched you shouldn't have leading, but some folks abuse muzzleloaders with other projectiles than patched round balls. ;-)

 

[smo]

From my past experience shooting maxis back in the day. When a barrel is "leaded" it will most of the time shoot the first shot from a clean bore fairly close to the mark, from there on its all down hill. :td: You cant make it hit in the same spot twice :idunno: :shake: What I would suggest is to move the target into 20 or 25 yards to start, clean the bore real good, use a patch ball combo that is fairly tight but not to tight for that small ram rod on the .32. Get a good shooting bench or sturdy table to shoot from. Put the rifle on sand bags or something similar to allow a good steady rest. Fire one shot then swab the bore fire another shot, concentrate on your follow through and a slow squeeze or the trigger. Continue this routine until you find out what powder and patch combo the rifle likes.Some of these rifles seem to like shooting with the bore fouled some don't. The problem with a fouled bore on a small cal rifle is the ram rod as I stated above. They will break Good Luck & Good Shootin' :thumbsup:

 

[kingsax26]

I started witht he traget at 25 yds,...however after purchasing the dutch schultz accuracy system and following it to the T, 50yds is what is reccomended. 25 or 50 it doesnt matter the gun does not want to shoot...i am positive it can be solved...I just dont ahve the time to solve the riddle. I am going to scrub the bore with some lead remover and steel wool...if that doesnt help its getting stacvked in the corner until i feel like tossing the barrel....or im going to trry and sell it. I just dont ahve the time or the will to mess around and find the load it needs. especially when im working 50+ hours a week . ...so if anyone wants a realy nice .32 cal...lemme know ! Disclaimer: rifle may require tinkering to find the perfect load

 

[MSW]

well, sir, I commend your patience.

good luck with the de- leading! let us know how it turns out!

 

[Birddog6]

. I just dont ahve the time or the will to mess around and find the load it needs. especially when im working 50+ hours a week . ...

I think this is the real problem. :idunno:

If you cannot put 3 shots in one hole at 25 yards, no use going out to 50 yds. :shake:

You need a Good Solid Bench, sand bags, several dif thicknesses of patches & dif sized balls, several dif lubes....
DOCUMENTATION of each target.
LOTS of time.....
Some days I find a load in an hour or two. Some times I shoot all day all weekend for 3-4 weekends til I find one !
I have owned over a couple hundred ML rifles, I have never had one yet I could not get accuracy with it. But you have to Spend the Time.

On a .32 I usually shoot around 30 grains of 3F in Goex or 25 grains in 3F Swiss. I prefer Swiss in all the small bore rifles up to & including .40 cal. Shoots well for me, cleans & loads so much easier. I shoot a pretty tight combo in them.

Lots of variables in finding loads.
YOUR accuracy capabilities
Loading technique
Swabbing technique
Powder quality
Lube quality & consistency
ASSUMPTIONS........ Assuming one lube or patch or load will work, cause it worked in another rifle. WRONG.............
Patch consistency
Ball consistency
Humidity & temp.

What you are shooting off. (If not using a bench & sand bags, you are wasting your time)

Lots of things go into finding a load. The load will be a good & accurate as the time you put into it.

Keith Lisle

 

[Rifleman1776]

ASSUMPTIONS........ Assuming one lube or patch or load will work, cause it worked in another rifle. WRONG.............

BINGO! :thumbsup:
Give the man a ceegar.
So many of the questions asked here are only attempts to learn by going to the range and trying for themselves.
Some people are simply not gene encoded to be muzzle loaders and should stick with suppository guns.

Edit: I give credit to the OP for his efforts at the range, I was speaking generally.