Battle field load stacking.

[pargent]

AMATEURES TO ARMS ,that about covers it all

 

[Sean Gadhar]

Slipping through the trees, quiet as could be. A heavy snow damping almost all noise, I slipped into range on the pine squirrel. I had heard his tiny scratching from 50 yards away, the woods were that quiet.

I take careful aim & fire. The CRACK! of the rifle and a clean miss :redface:

Mumbling cuss words :cursing: I reload. :cursing: GREAT!!! Now the load wont push all the way home!! DANG!! it's like there's a load in there You know, I never did see smoke :redface:

When that cap (and only the cap) went off on my .32 the crack was as loud as a .22 pistol to my ear in the dead quiet woods.

:idunno: 50 guys shooting next to me, Cannon, and a line of men shooting at me. Yea I could see thinking my rifle had fired when only the cap did :redface:

 

[Tinker2]

AMATEURES TO ARMS ,that about covers it all

No, I don’t think amateurs explains “Battle field load stacking”

I also think what being in intense combat is like, is truly not explainable



William Alexander

 

[Elnathan]

I remember reading about the proof tests the US Army was using for muskets early in the 19th century and thinking that it looked an awful lot like the army was aware of the multiple loading phenomenon and wanted to ensure that their muskets could survive some of it.

 

[tenngun]

Training was also hit and miss. Some of the boys marched in to line having practaced but never or at least rarly fired the gun. Green troops often had the sargent going over the steps while blue or gray lines bore down on them. Even the south had lots of boys who had little shooting experince before the war.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Stress can overwhelm the senses in many situations. Often, when that happens the individual reverts to doing what they are accustomed to doing. There are reports of sinking ships where a passenger goes back to his cabin and brushes his teeth. Or a burning house where the resident feeds the cat.
A battle hardened non-com has told me stories about how some green troops react under fire. Often oddly.

 

[wpjson]

It would seem to me, that if there was a failure to fire the first round, whatever caused that failure would tend to produce a misfire the second time. Odds would increase with the third round and so on. Pouring more powder on the top of the already seated ball would not fire, would it? I would think, in cases of load stacking, if the first charge failed there would be little danger of the second or third firing. During the excitment of battle, with so many shots going off all around you, you might have difficulty telling if yours was firing. So you keep loading and shooting, even though your first charge was faulty and never fired.

 

[19 16 6]

So it would seem. Things are not always as they seem though.
I remember when I did not know what a flash hole pick was, so without picking the flash hole after a flash in the pan the next prime fired the rifle.
O.

 

[pargent]

IT sure does you don't hear about it in any regular units any time , any where .Training and drill ,repeat as necessary . :thumbsup:

 

[Dphar]

There are reports of ML guns picked up after battles that had up to 10 loads jammed down them.
Now it seems to me that the bloke who stacked those loads may be dead, or why was his gun picked up after the battle ? Did he run ?
I am curious as to the psychology that caused this. Is there any definitive writings on this phenomenon.

Did he have a miss fire & not realise because of the noise & smoke everywhere & in some panic keep on loading & trying to fire ?

Did the guy not want to shoot fellow humans, so loaded & went through the motions so as not to be seen as yellow ?

What else is there ? I probably didn't think of the actual cause.

If the gun did happen to fire with multiple loads in it like that, what would happen ?
O.

If fired it might or might not fail.
Cause? Panic? Abject terror? Last man standing?
Once at the point of being in the firefight and knowing that someone is going to shoot you or stick a bayonet in ones guts one should attempt to defend one's self.
Combat in the Civil War was almost beyond comprehension. 25000 to 50000 dead in a day or two. Regiments in ranks shot down in a matter of minutes. Looking about and finding yourself as one of the few still standing will cause one to run and many did.

Dan

 

[lapierre1]

I read this same thing quite a few years ago also happening at the battle of Gettysburg though at this late date I don't remember where I read this but possibly it was in the Time Life series of Civil War books. When rifles were picked up and examined after the battle some of them had multiple rounds stacked in the barrel. The rounds were pulled and the cartridges contained dirt instead of gunpowder. These were cartridges purchased from England by the CSA and issued to her troops. Possibly an "unscrupulous" vendor taking advantage of the shortages of the southern armies?!? Couldn't imagine that.

 

[Artificer]

It would seem to me, that if there was a failure to fire the first round, whatever caused that failure would tend to produce a misfire the second time. Odds would increase with the third round and so on. Pouring more powder on the top of the already seated ball would not fire, would it? I would think, in cases of load stacking, if the first charge failed there would be little danger of the second or third firing. During the excitment of battle, with so many shots going off all around you, you might have difficulty telling if yours was firing. So you keep loading and shooting, even though your first charge was faulty and never fired.

This is only experienced conjecture on my part, but if the first cap did not set off the charge; it may have blown water, oil, dust or residue out of the way and fired on the second cap. If the second cap did not clear the problem, then I agree it would be less and less of a chance a cap would set off the load on the 3rd, 4th and 5th caps.

On a flintlock musket (not rifle), however, the second or third time the flint struck the frizzen, it may have then set off the main charge in the barrel. When using paper cartridges, the superheated gasses from the first load may have gotten around the cartridge paper from an air space or may even have burned through where the wadded cartridge paper was not as thick on the load above it. (The ball from the first load would have been pushing against the powder charge in the second load and that have opened up an air space or moved the wadded paper aside enough to allow the gasses to burn through.) This could/would have resulted in the second load going off inside the barrel.

Gus

 

[Poor Private]

I forget who it was. But a regiment col. to settle down his green troops had them load by 9's. The troops settled down and stood their ground during the battle.

 

[smoothshooter]

After the battle at Gettysburg, according to the Army Ordnance Department (Union), 27,574 muskets were picked up from the battlefield. Of these, approximately 6,000 were properly loaded.
Approximately 12,000 had 3 to 10 loads, and one was found to have 24 loads.
Many contained cartridges loaded upside down ( number unrecorded ).
A few minutes ago, I came across an account stating that a fair number of muskets believed to be Confederate contained paper cartridges that were made up with dirt instead of powder. Can't say if this is true; but if it is, could these have been some field - expedient training cartridges made up for recruit practice that somehow got mixed in with the standard - issue ammunition?
Or perhaps a case of sabotage?

Sincerely,

Smoothshooter

 

[RedFeather]

From what I've read, the concensus was that soldiers reloaded but failed to cap. Battlefields were loud and smoke filled. Apparently, guns were being loaded, shouldered and "fired", repeatedly without the shooters realizing they weren't going off. Not hard to imagine given the wholesale slaughter on Civil War battlefields.

 

[19 16 6]

Failing to cap. There's a new one.
Now if they did realize after a few loads, that they were failing to cap & did cap & shoot . That could account for the blown up guns found on the field.
O.

 

[eaglesnester]

This has caused death and serious injuries when a stacked load fired and blew up the gun. Yes they can fail to fire but if they do fire the results can be catastrophic. I would not want to take the chance on a stacked load ever. :surrender:

 

[FiremanBrad]

Have seen modern day CW Reenactors do the same thing. Of course, there's little recoil when shooting blanks. The noise of a Company or Battallion volley fire, you have to watch the end of your muzzle to confirm if yours went bang!!

 

[kaintuck]

ever been scared???? :shocked2:
I mean scared...bonechilling, feet wont move scared????????

then there's the answer...........

tomtom

 

[M. De Land]

Yeah, that's were the drilling/training comes in, your hands still know what to do while your mind is scared spit-less and barely working in any cognitive way.