Bedding a Whitworth rifle video

[Widows Son]

Hello, I hope everyone is doing well.

I’m posting here a short video about my Parker-Hale Whitworth being bedded in the traditional manner of paper and shellac. The gentleman that did the job knows what he is about and has bedded the rifles of many Australian match winners. His name is Kelvin Moss from the vicinity of Orange, NSW. With his permission I’m posting the video for everyone’s enjoyment and information.

He began his work by removing the very fine ridgeline from the stock making process down the barrel channel. I had read the excellent article by Mr Curtis as hosted on Research Press website, and sure enough, my stock showed wear marks from the barrel bearing down on it. Once this barely visible ridge was scraped away, he began layering brown paper (lunch-wrap) and painted shellac on each leaf; then lay the barrel in the channel and look for shellac on the barrel. This continued until the barrel showed shellac all along it’s radius, which indicates enough paper layers are in place (I forgot to mention this was at the breech end of the barrel channel). For my particular rifle it was 8 layers of paper.
This process was repeated at each barrel band along the stock, with fewer layers of paper required at each barrel band (when wet shellac was showed all over the radius of the barrel it was sufficient). Interestingly, no papers were placed under the tang channel. Whether this was particular to my own rifle or common to all I cannot say, nor did I think to ask.
Next my lock plate was modified so the curve under the bolster/nipple snail was clear to the dimensio of a playing card. (No playing cards being handy, the brown paper used to bed the barrel was folded to 4 layers). That’s the last photo in the video.

Regards to all

 

[Kno-ie]

Widows Son,
It's been over a month since posting the bedding of your rifle, have you noticed a change in the accuracy in the rifle?
Kno-ie

 

[Artificer]

Hello, I hope everyone is doing well.

I’m posting here a short video about my Parker-Hale Whitworth being bedded in the traditional manner of paper and shellac. The gentleman that did the job knows what he is about and has bedded the rifles of many Australian match winners. His name is Kelvin Moss from the vicinity of Orange, NSW. With his permission I’m posting the video for everyone’s enjoyment and information.

He began his work by removing the very fine ridgeline from the stock making process down the barrel channel. I had read the excellent article by Mr Curtis as hosted on Research Press website, and sure enough, my stock showed wear marks from the barrel bearing down on it. Once this barely visible ridge was scraped away, he began layering brown paper (lunch-wrap) and painted shellac on each leaf; then lay the barrel in the channel and look for shellac on the barrel. This continued until the barrel showed shellac all along it’s radius, which indicates enough paper layers are in place (I forgot to mention this was at the breech end of the barrel channel). For my particular rifle it was 8 layers of paper.
This process was repeated at each barrel band along the stock, with fewer layers of paper required at each barrel band (when wet shellac was showed all over the radius of the barrel it was sufficient). Interestingly, no papers were placed under the tang channel. Whether this was particular to my own rifle or common to all I cannot say, nor did I think to ask.
Next my lock plate was modified so the curve under the bolster/nipple snail was clear to the dimensio of a playing card. (No playing cards being handy, the brown paper used to bed the barrel was folded to 4 layers). That’s the last photo in the video.

Regards to all

If I may ask, how tightly does Mr. Moss suggest tightening the barrel bands after the process is done?

Gus

 

[Widows Son]

Widows Son,
It's been over a month since posting the bedding of your rifle, have you noticed a change in the accuracy in the rifle?
Kno-ie

Howdy mate.
I had to take the barrel out of the stock to put water pump grease in the barrel channel and then replaced it as carefully as I could according to Kelvin’s instructions.
I think the procedure helped a bit but it didn’t improve accuracy a huge amount. I’m still struggling to develop a good load

 

[Widows Son]

If I may ask, how tightly does Mr. Moss suggest tightening the barrel bands after the process is done?

Gus

Hi mate,
The barrel bands are pretty tight but when you look down along the length of the barrel from the muzzle you should be able to see glimpses of light from the space between the barrel bands and the barrel, sort of on the “shoulders “ of the bands.

 

[Artificer]

Hi mate,
The barrel bands are pretty tight but when you look down along the length of the barrel from the muzzle you should be able to see glimpses of light from the space between the barrel bands and the barrel, sort of on the “shoulders “ of the bands.

Thank you, but if I may ask for clarification?

After this process is done, does the barrel still contact the top undersides of the bands only? Or are you saying the top of the barrel doesn't contact the top underside of the bands and only further down the sides? If the latter, I'm having a very difficult time imagining that.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

OK, after thinking about it more, I forgot to consider the bands on that rifle are "split" bands. If one tightens them up enough, the bands are going to get pulled together so the band will contact on the sides of the barrel at roughly 2 and 10 o'clock and leave open space under the top inside of the band.

Been a while since I used hide glued wood shims, laid paper or glass bedded an Enfield or Enfield Type Rifle with split bands. Sorry.

Interesting bedding method put forth in the video. So you have four point contact bedding, I.E. 2 and 10 o'clock on the bands and 4 and 8 o'clock on the stock channel, after clearing the bottom of the inside of the stock channel with the chisel.

Gus

 

[Widows Son]

Thank you, but if I may ask for clarification?

After this process is done, does the barrel still contact the top undersides of the bands only? Or are you saying the top of the barrel doesn't contact the top underside of the bands and only further down the sides? If the latter, I'm having a very difficult time imagining that.

Gus

I’ll try to take a photo of the barrel band gap for clarity

 

[Artificer]

I’ll try to take a photo of the barrel band gap for clarity

That would be great. Thank you.

Gus

 

[Widows Son]

That would be great. Thank you.

Gus

Hi Gus,
I’m sorry mate but I couldn’t get a proper picture. I was trying to shine a light along the side of the barrel to show through the barrel band but I couldn’t focus and it was just blurry.
However I think my earlier explanation was misleading and confusing, I’m sorry.

The idea is the barrel needs to lay in the stock squarely along it‘s axis and the barrel bands need to be affixed straight and true. Kelvin did that by putting the barrel in the stock and sliding the barrel bands on, loosely screwed. He then loosely affixed the tang screw and gave the buttstock a good hard smack on the floor. That ensured the tang and the breech were firmly in the stock.
Before the barrel bands are tightened, look down along the left and right sides of the stock. You want to see light showing equally through the barrel bands “shoulders” on each side of the barrel. That tells you that the bands are straight and will apply equal pressure along the circumference of the barrel and stock. You need to tighten the barrel band screws without letting them move. You won’t see any light through them once they are fully tightened. Then screw down the tang screw, not gorilla tight, just firm. The barrel bands are quite tight.
Kelvin asked me to withdraw the ramrod. When I did it was very snug and required a determined pull to remove it as well as replace it. He said‘remember that feeling. Thats how you know everything is right”. Of course that is a rather subjective thing and impossible to properly relate in writing.

I hope that was a better explanation.

 

[TFoley]

This is very interesting especially given that most early P-H Whitworth rifles, including two of mine, were epoxy-bedded in the factory - something that P-H actually touted on the advertisements of the time. My guns, BTW, are 420 and 888.

 

[Artificer]

Hi Gus,
I’m sorry mate but I couldn’t get a proper picture. I was trying to shine a light along the side of the barrel to show through the barrel band but I couldn’t focus and it was just blurry.
However I think my earlier explanation was misleading and confusing, I’m sorry.

The idea is the barrel needs to lay in the stock squarely along it‘s axis and the barrel bands need to be affixed straight and true. Kelvin did that by putting the barrel in the stock and sliding the barrel bands on, loosely screwed. He then loosely affixed the tang screw and gave the buttstock a good hard smack on the floor. That ensured the tang and the breech were firmly in the stock.
Before the barrel bands are tightened, look down along the left and right sides of the stock. You want to see light showing equally through the barrel bands “shoulders” on each side of the barrel. That tells you that the bands are straight and will apply equal pressure along the circumference of the barrel and stock. You need to tighten the barrel band screws without letting them move. You won’t see any light through them once they are fully tightened. Then screw down the tang screw, not gorilla tight, just firm. The barrel bands are quite tight.
Kelvin asked me to withdraw the ramrod. When I did it was very snug and required a determined pull to remove it as well as replace it. He said‘remember that feeling. Thats how you know everything is right”. Of course that is a rather subjective thing and impossible to properly relate in writing.

I hope that was a better explanation.

Yes indeed! Now that makes perfect sense. Thank you.

On NM target rifles, we used to torque the bedding screws to within a certain range of tightness, though we found individual rifles shot better with more than the minimum. It would be interesting to see how many inch pounds of torque on the band screws that Kelvin believed to be that sweet spot.

Gus

 

[Widows Son]

Yes indeed! Now that makes perfect sense. Thank you.

On NM target rifles, we used to torque the bedding screws to within a certain range of tightness, though we found individual rifles shot better with more than the minimum. It would be interesting to see how many inch pounds of torque on the band screws that Kelvin believed to be that sweet spot.

Gus

That idea did occur to me however I don’t have a torque wrench that size.
It may be specific to each rifle anyway. When he was layering the paper in the barrel channel he did say ‘the rifle will tell me when it’s right’. He said usually less paper is needed the closer to the muzzle you get but he made it clear that there is no definite fixed amount; just keep layering until it’s right.

I have never for a moment regretted buying this rifle, but it has been the most challenging and finicky firearm I have ever used. It’s hard to develop a load for, it’s hard to clean, it’s so sensitive to different projectiles and wad combinations and powder charges and recoil is substantial. I’m determined to find a good load for it but it is a difficult and slow journey. One step forward and one step back.

 

[Artificer]

That idea did occur to me however I don’t have a torque wrench that size.
It may be specific to each rifle anyway. When he was layering the paper in the barrel channel he did say ‘the rifle will tell me when it’s right’. He said usually less paper is needed the closer to the muzzle you get but he made it clear that there is no definite fixed amount; just keep layering until it’s right.

I have never for a moment regretted buying this rifle, but it has been the most challenging and finicky firearm I have ever used. It’s hard to develop a load for, it’s hard to clean, it’s so sensitive to different projectiles and wad combinations and powder charges and recoil is substantial. I’m determined to find a good load for it but it is a difficult and slow journey. One step forward and one step back.

I'm sure the amount of torque each rifle likes is going to be specific to the rifle, this because you are dealing with a wood stock and slight variations in barrel inletting, barrel diameters where the bands are placed, variations in the bands, etc. (For the modern rifles, we actually recorded how much torque each rifle liked in its gun book, once we found what it preferred and many of them varied a little to some a lot.)

Kelvin's bedding technique is one that would be allowed in International Muzzle Loading Competition and believe me, they are REAL sticklers for only allowing what was only available in the period of each class of firearm.

Gus

 

[Widows Son]

Kelvin's bedding technique is one that would be allowed in International Muzzle Loading Competition and believe me, they are REAL sticklers for only allowing what was only available in the period of each class of firearm.

Its part of my pipe dream to get involved in national and international competitions, though I know I’m nowhere near ready. And, I like the idea of being historically correct, or at least close to historical.

 

[Artificer]

Howdy mate.
I had to take the barrel out of the stock to put water pump grease in the barrel channel and then replaced it as carefully as I could according to Kelvin’s instructions.
I think the procedure helped a bit but it didn’t improve accuracy a huge amount. I’m still struggling to develop a good load

Sorry I missed this earlier.

That water pump grease MAY have been a bad thing to do, especially if the grease gets between the barrel and layers of paper or even if it is just close enough to the paper shims, because the grease may/will "travel" between the shims and barrel during recoil. The grease will act as a lubricant between the shims and barrel and may even get beaten into the shellac and contaminate/destroy its body.

Personally, I would take the barrel off again and clean out any grease remaining inside the stock. The minimum I would do is clean all the grease off the barrel using dry wipes or rags, until you cannot notice there is any grease at all on it.

OK, a few words on passing the "Inspection" or what the British Team called the "Scrutiny" at two World Championships I attended at the ranges at Wedgnock, the Midlands, UK and lower level competition inspections. For those who don't know, all arms shot in those competitions have to pass Inspection/Scrutiny for both safety and historic accuracy for whichever event the competitor wishes to enter.

First, one has to be careful of the materials used to do repairs/enhancements to pass Inspection/Scrutiny. One can get away with using Shellac on the paper shims on an original or reproduction Whitworth because Shellac was in common use worldwide by the time those rifles were made. On originals and reproductions of early rifles and guns, this could be a problem to pass Inspection/Scrutiny IF shellac was not commonly available when the gun was made. Now generally "The "period of widespread introduction" would seem to be around 1550 to 1650, when the substance moved from being a rarity on highly decorated pieces to being described in the standard texts of the day." Granted we are talking mostly matchlocks where this could be a problem, though some more modern guns might still have been made before this period. This is why many of us use original/real hide glue (that you must warm up in a double boiler) to do this job, because no one disputes that for any gun used in International Competition.

Now though this next might seem REALLY Petty, a rifle/gun might also fail Inspection/Scrutiny due to what TYPE of paper is used to make a repair/improvement like this. Wood pulp paper did not generally come into worldwide widespread use until the 1840's, so again no problem for an original or reproduction Whitworth, but it might not pass Inspection/Scrutiny on guns made before that. This is why many/most of us who work on international guns use REAL linen paper to do this type of work because it is stronger and absolutely authentic for any period international guns. BTW, I strongly recommend you check that you aren't getting "Cotton "Linen" Paper, as it is not quite as strong as real linen paper. I even go so far as to use an "off white" color linen paper just so someone can't argue colored linen paper wasn't used in certain time periods.

Now I realize guns with these things might well pass national team standards and even pass some regional zone standards regularly, BUT fail when one gets to a world championship. Believe me, I've seen such things happen.

We had one competitor on the U.S. team get his original British flintlock rifle disqualified because it supposedly had the wrong type of rifling in it. This rifle had previously passed two Regional Zone and one World Championship Inspection, BTW. Now this wasn't any kind of "special" rifling as the Judge claimed. It was not progressive rifling or anything that would stand out as being "too late" for that rifle. As the Team Armourer, I hit the roof when I heard the rifle had been disqualified. I went to our Team Captain to persuade him to challenge the ruling, because any gunsmith in Great Britain or around the world might well have used that type of hand cut rifling when the bore and rifling had to be "freshened" well within the period the rifle was made. I and even other Team Members on our and other Teams completely agreed with me. Long story short, our team member sold the rifle to another shooter and no doubt that rifle would qualify and be legally shot in other Regional Zone and World Championships, just not at THAT one.

The LAST thing one wants to do when paying for all the expenses of traveling to a shoot, food, housing, match fee's etc., etc. is get one's rifle disqualified when one actually gets there.

Gus