Bees Wax uses and recipes

[M. De Land]

Clyde, here is the recipe.
Yellow bees wax- 2 parts(ounces avdp)
Pure Neatfoot oil- 1 part(fluid ounces)
Murphy's oil soap- 1 part (fluid ounces)
Thoroughly melt Bees wax in double boiler or microwave and add the Neatsfoot oil.(do not use Neatfoot compound).
Stir until all lumps are gone.
Now add the Murphy's oil soap and stir in and mix thoroughly until lumps are gone.
This is when the sponification (boiling reaction) will occur and has happened every time I have made this lube.
As soon as it settles down is the time to pour into what ever containers you will want it in as it will soon solidify and does not melt afterwords.
I get the Neatsfoot oil at a saddle shop and the Murphy's oil soap at Wallmart.
I have all four of Paul Mathews Blackpowder cartridge books and they are published by: Wolfe publishing Co. Prescott Arizona.
Here are some easy proportions: 4 ounces of melted bees wax, 2 ounces of Neatsfoot oil, 2 ounces of Murphy's oil soap

 

[coloradoclyde]

Sounds like the author made a mistake...
That recipe reminds me of moose snot.

 

[swathdiver]

Doesn't it get tacky?

Nope, I've done a couple sixguns that way when we were all talking about it two years ago here. They turned out great and still are. The beeswax even improved the grip and handling, nice when shootin' a lot.

 

[M. De Land]

I don't know where Mathews got the recipe but I do know it is very good lube for black powder use in cold or hot weather.
I've been using LBT soft blue for years in all my smokeless cast bullet shooting for rifle or pistol but am starting to try this stuff in it's place to see how it compares.
The LBT soft blue doesn't seem to work as well in the cold............ we'll find out.
I'd love to be able to use the Mathews lube for all my cast bullet shooting.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I've recovered bullets from my trap and they still had soft blue on them....

I didn't mean to imply that Mathews copied the moose snot recipe He didn't its different.
I just don't like his definition of Saponification.

 

[M. De Land]

I don't know what else he would call it as it boils up in a chemical reaction when the Murphy's oil soap is added.
After that happens it does solidify into a heavy lard consistency.

 

[Spikebuck]

Mathews book? do you have a link I am not familiar with that.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Search.aspx?search=paul matthews

ToTW has a bunch of Paul's books. Since I just added BPCR to my hobbies, I bought one on loading cartridges (which contains the recipe) and one on shooting (also contains recipes).

 

[coloradoclyde]

I think it is really an emulsion.

Saponification is the process by which fat is converted into soap using lye. An emulsion is the combining of different ingredients that normally do not readily combine with each other.
You are creating an emulsion of soap, wax and oil. soap itself is an emulsifier.

As for the foaming, Murphy's oil soap contains surfactants that contribute to foaming and emulsification. The foaming may also just be water in the soap boiling off as the temperature of the oil has risen above waters boiling point.

As for the mixture thickening, that is just a result of the beeswax returning to its natural state when cooled. The reason it thickens when you add the soap during mixing, is probably the propylene glycol in the soap.

Another interesting side note; Is that murphy's' oil sop contains EDTA (ethylene diamine tetra-acetic acid), a synthetic amino acid. It is added to soap to remove and prevent soap scum buildup . EDTA is also used in chelation therapy for lead poisoning because it binds with the lead and then can be flushed from the body....This makes it a perfect soap for muzzleloader shooters to clean their guns with and wash their hands with.

 

[Old Creek]

an odd use I guess but I fluff some hemp twine up and soak it in bees wax until it is saturated and use it as stoppers for containers made of river cane, it forms easy and so far has held up well.

creek

 

[coloradoclyde]

:hmm: ....picture?

 

[Old Creek]

:hmm: ....picture?

Clyde, i'll try yo get one tonight and post it tomorrow.

it aint pretty, I roll it into a cone, double over the thin end and after inserting it round the top. picture a miniature ice cream cone.

creek

 

[Old Creek]

as requested

 

[FPDoc]

I've made needle cases etc. from river cane. I've always used similar plugs, made from leather (waxed) with strings to the river cane case so I don't lose them. I like the hemp/beeswax idea.

 

[Old Creek]

that's exactly what that is, my needle case. there was no for thought to it, I had the bees wax out for something else and the hemp was scrap I had fluffed up for the fire kit so it was just handy at the time.

creek

 

[hawkeye2]

"I think it is really an emulsion.

Saponification is the process by which fat is converted into soap using lye. An emulsion is the combining of different ingredients that normally do not readily combine with each other.
You are creating an emulsion of soap, wax and oil. soap itself is an emulsifier."

Colorado Clyde thanks for pointing that out to everyone. Saponification does not occur unless lye is added to the mixture. Mathews discusses this in his book as a further step that can be taken in making a bullet lube and mentions a few possible benefits from doing so. He points out that many commercial bullet lubes, for example SPG, can be saponified and may be improved by doing so. He also describes how to guesstimate the amount of lye one would need to add to the commercial lubes in addition to the method of saponificating any home brew lube.

Paul Mathews' books can be found on Amazon and if purchased there can benefit this forum. Mathews has been shooting black powder since sometime in the 40's and has written quite a number of books based on his experiences. His prime interest is black powder cartridges but a lot of his information can be adapted to our use. The books average about $22.50 and are not very long but the amount of information presented is impressive. He writes in a clear and easily understood manner.

 

[tom deinek]

Reading a lot in local newspapers about chelation due to the water problems in Flint, which is an hour away.

 

[Flint311]

This thread got me to thinking and "playing". Not a good combination for me :surrender:

So, I got together some beeswax......

]Beeswax[/url]

and made some candles and patch lube. The candles on the right are made a year ago or so, so they have the scale on them. The Altoids tin holds the patch lube with Crisco, but may have made it a little thick (easy to change).
]Candles and patch lube[/url]

I've made the beeswax, boiled linseed, and turpentine before and it works great :thumbsup:

Upon checking online, some sites said the French use it for baking. The patch lube may work for longer term storage of cast iron pans (?). Any more ideas??

 

[Jim C]

Don't buy it all, I want some too. :haha:

 

[M. De Land]

Does and emulsion boil up in a chemical reaction when the melted bees wax and Neatsfoot oil are combined with the Murphy's oil soap?
I'm getting low on lube and will be making some more up here in a while and will see if I'm remembering this correctly.
Perhaps I can get a video of it for posting so we can get an analysis from some of you chemists of what is occurring.

 

[hawkeye2]

"Does and emulsion boil up in a chemical reaction when the melted bees wax and Neatsfoot oil are combined with the Murphy's oil soap?"

No, in a chemical reaction the substances involved combine to form one or more new and different substances. What is happening here is that the 3 items are mixed to form a compound and each item retains its original identity. In theory you should be able to extract the Murphy's from the compound and the Neatsfoot oil too just leaving the bees wax however theories aren't always practial and you would have quite a time doing it. In making a lube it's important to choose things that are compatible and won't separate out as it cools or over time or you'll end up shaking or stirring the mix every time you use it. Uniformity of the lube depends on how well it was mixed before it cools.