Except that our ancestors didn't have an equivalent to Jo-Ann's or similar shops with bolts of cloth to compare. Choice must have been extremely limited to what was available. Cloth wasn't as common then as it is now and was usually linen.
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Before the micrometer
- Thread starter Gene L
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I mentioned it on the board once, checking thickness with my fingers and some people acted like I was crazy. I wasn't trying to imply I could tell the thickness down to the thousandth of an inch but I could certainly tell if one piece of cloth was thicker than another or not. The mind and body can do incredible things if you give it a chance and pay attention. I worked in a warehouse years ago and would in check shipments. Some of our orders which had multiple copies would sometimes already have a center copy missing for whatever reason but I could tell by the feel that it wasn't there.
I use a micrometer now but before I had one to use, I would take several swatches of cloth of different thicknesses with me to the range and try each one to see what works best.
I use a micrometer now but before I had one to use, I would take several swatches of cloth of different thicknesses with me to the range and try each one to see what works best.
Gene L said:
The shipping trade industry was extensive for many years before and after the AWI. Most towns had general stores where cloth was available. Micrometers? Probably not.
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I have also done some silhouette (animal target) shooting at 200 meters with a .54 caliber percussion gun I built some years ago and at this distance the ball is flying down hill like a meteorite making elevation extremely difficult over open sights.
As to patching material used in the Golden era, I have read many folks used leather, scraping it to suitable thickness, simply testing thickness of a swath wrapped around a ball thumb pressed into the muzzle of their gun and then retrieved with a pull.
My guess is the gauge for thickness was this method of periodic testing at various places on the leather being scraped.
As to patching material used in the Golden era, I have read many folks used leather, scraping it to suitable thickness, simply testing thickness of a swath wrapped around a ball thumb pressed into the muzzle of their gun and then retrieved with a pull.
My guess is the gauge for thickness was this method of periodic testing at various places on the leather being scraped.
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I have made bullet molds in a lathe but not tried a ball mold yet.
I've seen how it was done in the old days with an open ended hardened plate heavily chamfered on one side and opened up to the hole in the center for the cherry shaft which becomes the sprue hole in the mold.
That part seems rather simple and straight forward. The part that makes me scratch my head is filing the serpentine relief grooves for chip clearance in the round cherry surface, somewhat uniformly.
I've seen how it was done in the old days with an open ended hardened plate heavily chamfered on one side and opened up to the hole in the center for the cherry shaft which becomes the sprue hole in the mold.
That part seems rather simple and straight forward. The part that makes me scratch my head is filing the serpentine relief grooves for chip clearance in the round cherry surface, somewhat uniformly.
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I wonder how the first micrometer was made without a micrometer.... :haha:
A manual caliper will do all that one needs....
A manual caliper will do all that one needs....
My brother is one of those boys that can look at a floor or a wall and tell you if it's plumb or level or square. Back in the 60s, he got a job for Tandy in aero-space running a lathe. But... he didn't know how to read a mich. He was given a barring to make. It was his first job to test his skill. He just had to eyeball it under a low powered microscope. His first one was well which in specs and he kept his job. Took him several days to learn the mich. Watdh makers wheelock makers and music box makers learned to do a lot without modern tools.
I always wanted to take a course to become a watch maker but I could never find the time.
nebraska steve
36 Cal.
Gene L said:
Nice pun.
:haha:
Many Klatch
69 Cal.
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A couple of years ago we had a similar discussion. This one was about hitting a man sized target at 400 yards. There are several references to shots being made at that range and there are any number of arm chair experts that say it can't be done.
Jethro came up with a monthly shoot at 400 yards shooting at a 2' X 6' piece of plywood. 20 shots.
Two of us took up the challenge. We went to Friendship and wired the target to the 400 meter range which is 437 yards. We were shooting flintlocks with our standard loads. I was shooting a .54 with 75 grains of 3F. JJ was shooting his .50, not sure what his load was. It took us a few shots to get the range. Overs and unders hit the grass and we couldn't spot them. Shots to the left and the right hit limestone dust and we could see them. There was a light wind from the left.
We finally zeroed in and I got 3 hits and JJ got 2. What we learned was that once you figure out your range, you pick a tree in the background for an aiming point. I was aiming at a fork in a tree that was about 20 feet above the target. If you have several shooters with similar guns, once you are on target you can give the other shooters your aiming point and bring much fire on the target.
Jethro came up with a monthly shoot at 400 yards shooting at a 2' X 6' piece of plywood. 20 shots.
Two of us took up the challenge. We went to Friendship and wired the target to the 400 meter range which is 437 yards. We were shooting flintlocks with our standard loads. I was shooting a .54 with 75 grains of 3F. JJ was shooting his .50, not sure what his load was. It took us a few shots to get the range. Overs and unders hit the grass and we couldn't spot them. Shots to the left and the right hit limestone dust and we could see them. There was a light wind from the left.
We finally zeroed in and I got 3 hits and JJ got 2. What we learned was that once you figure out your range, you pick a tree in the background for an aiming point. I was aiming at a fork in a tree that was about 20 feet above the target. If you have several shooters with similar guns, once you are on target you can give the other shooters your aiming point and bring much fire on the target.
Billnpatti
Cannon
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Gene L said:
Quite true. But our ancestors did just as the person who feels cloth with his fingers in Jo-Ann's. They felt and compared what they had on hand. Some had more at hand to choose from and others had less. The difference between our ancestors and the man in Jo-Ann's is that the man in Jo-Ann's just has a bigger selection, but he is, like our ancestor, limited to what he has on hand to select from. In both cases, the method of selection is the same. Really, the only difference, fabric quality aside, is in the size of the selection.
Was doing a little research a while back about growing cotton in the south and why the Cotton Gin revolutionized it. Big reason was because the Cotton Gin made it much easier to remove the seeds from the short-staple cotton that was grown in the interior of the South. Didn't make as much difference on the coast and tidewater areas because they were able to grow long-staple cotton there and it wasn't such a chore to remove the seeds from long-staple cotton because of those much long filaments.
Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:
Dan
Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:
Dan
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Thank you, that was interesting. I have wondered why the cotton gin wasn't mentioned here in Virginia, so that's the answer.
Of course Virginia was the only State to build their own Armory in Richmond on top of the U.S. Armory at Harpers Ferry.
Gus
Of course Virginia was the only State to build their own Armory in Richmond on top of the U.S. Armory at Harpers Ferry.
Gus
I believe the seeds in long-staple cotton are also slick whereas short-staple cotton the seeds are not. At least that's what I heard.
Eli Whitney, who invented the cotton gin also introduced the idea of standardized parts on military firearms instead of each lock and hammer being forged for that particular weapon and none others.
I'm sure everyone here knows this, but Whitney is known for the gin instead of firearms, for which he only gets a footnote.
Eli Whitney, who invented the cotton gin also introduced the idea of standardized parts on military firearms instead of each lock and hammer being forged for that particular weapon and none others.
I'm sure everyone here knows this, but Whitney is known for the gin instead of firearms, for which he only gets a footnote.
I raise sheep, and I can tell you it is a HORRIBLE JOB to pull all the VW (vegetable matter) out of the raw wool. And that's a polite way to include the dried poop around the "skirt"; the lower part of the sheared fleece. Any seed head in the hay works into the fleece like Velcro.
On top of that you don't have to chase down cotton plants and wrestle with them, like you must while trying not to slice the sheep or yourself with the shears.
No sympathy here.
On top of that you don't have to chase down cotton plants and wrestle with them, like you must while trying not to slice the sheep or yourself with the shears.
No sympathy here.
Gene L said:
Coarse cloth? They had much finer linen available in the past than now. The Egyptians, for example, had linen cloth so fine it was see through or so I have read. IIRC Audubon wrote than Boone used "shirt bosom linen" for patches. This would not have been course linen.
It is the modern ML shooter that is cursed with crappy cloth, especially some of the communist made cotton "ticking".
AND I don't think a ML rifle cares that much. They checked the thickness by feel or by trying it in the rifle. If it was strong enough and fit right they were good to go.
smoothshooter
50 Cal.
Since people in those days didn't shoot as much as we do, a couple of hours casting buckshot from a single cavity mould might have kept the shooter in buckshot for several days or weeks. They would have had lots of time on their hands to do things of that sort at night and other times.
smoothshooter
50 Cal.
I think any oranges being hit at 200 yards was more a matter of luck than anything else.
I take most of the surviving stories of such outstanding marksmanship with very large grains of salt.
Or flat out call B. S. on them.
I take most of the surviving stories of such outstanding marksmanship with very large grains of salt.
Or flat out call B. S. on them.
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Keep in mind that 30 YOA was getting on in years back then. We're a buncha geezers wishing we were young and it probably has little bearing on what was true or false then.
I used to see it all the time when shooting with our son-in-law back when he was in his 20's and thirties. He could cut my groups by half just by picking up a gun.
Now in his late 40's he was actually going to have a gun rebarreled because the barrel was "shot out" and wouldn't group anywhere near how it did in his glory days.
Shot out, that is, until he made the mistake of letting his 19 YOA nephew shoot it! :rotf:
I'm talking more about young reflexes, coordination and stamina rather than eyesight, since we can all get glasses now. We just don't HAVE IT like we did when we were young, and ther's no sense blaming the guns. :surrender:
I used to see it all the time when shooting with our son-in-law back when he was in his 20's and thirties. He could cut my groups by half just by picking up a gun.
Now in his late 40's he was actually going to have a gun rebarreled because the barrel was "shot out" and wouldn't group anywhere near how it did in his glory days.
Shot out, that is, until he made the mistake of letting his 19 YOA nephew shoot it! :rotf:
I'm talking more about young reflexes, coordination and stamina rather than eyesight, since we can all get glasses now. We just don't HAVE IT like we did when we were young, and ther's no sense blaming the guns. :surrender:
