Best way to finish stock?

[WVAED]

Guys i am about to finish the stock on my early Lancaster .50 caliber rifle. I have aqua fortis (spelling?). My question is, What is the best way to insure the rifle turns out with that beautiful color i see on so many rifles? Kind of a deep reddish brown color. Do i use the aqua fortis, apply heat, then use a stain beyond that? Also what type of oil You all apply to the finish, if any? Thanks.

 

[necchi]

There about about 400 topics on that specific matter in this section.
With all respect,, try reading a few of the back pages here. :v
There is more info found in the back pages then can be compiled in several volumes of paper book

 

[WVAED]

Thanks for the insight about back pages. I used the search feature which is about worthless. Everything i search comes up with the most recent posts, even the ones that have nothing to do with the search. A simple answer is what i would really like.

 

[mooman76]

Modify the search to go back further.

 

[B.Habermehl]

With aqua fortis you get what you get after blushing it with a heat gun. Sometimes you need to over stain with another stain or dye to get the color you want. Some people add Transtint dye to their oil varnish. This is what I do, I stain with one of laurel mountains stains. Then I mix one or more of woodcrafts Transtint dyes to the Forbes ting oil finish I like to use to adjust the final color to what I want. BJH

 

[Zonie]

First, when you use "advanced search" you will find a selection towards the middle of the bottom of the screen called Match posts made.
It is set to read "and newer". If you want to see posts over a year old, change it to read, "and older". Be forewarned, the forum has been around for many years so that older than a year setting will get a LOT of hits.

As for the finish you get with aqua-fortis, B.Habermehl is correct.
There is no way to predict what color you will end up with because it is a function of the aqua-fortis you use and how the wood reacts to it.
Two identical pieces of wood can produce two different colors when aqua-fortis is applied and heated.

If you have an alcohol based stain, you can thin it down by using denatured alcohol. Then, apply a coat or more of it to get the tint you want.

A bit of a warning about staining:
The real color will only be noticeable as long as the stained wood is wet.
It's appearance while the wood is wet is very close to the color/darkness it will be after the finishing oils are applied.
Put another way, after the stain dries but before oils are applied, the wood will be MUCH lighter in appearance.

(To find out what the wood will really look like before oiling it, apply a light coat of water to the surface. Examine the wet wood outside in the sun or under a good light.
After examining the water dampened wood, you can decide whether it needs additional tinting.)

After the oil is applied, the darkness will return.

Many of us use Birchwood Casey Tru-Oil while others like Tung oil.
Some like linseed but it takes a LONG time to dry.

Even a varnish can be used but it should be rubbed onto the wood, never painted on with a brush.

 

[WVAED]

Thanks for the help guys. I also might ask. I have a bottle of aqua fortis that is at least 5 years old. Would that be a problem?

 

[old gunsmith]

B.Habermael and Zonie are quite correct in their advice. But let me ad one caveat; water on un sealed wood can raise wood grain, the so called "whiskers". Whiskers make for a rough wood surface and on some types of wood will cause the stain to be un evenly absorbed. The solution is to as the last step in the raw wood prep is to lightly dampen the raw wood and let it dry and then either use a wood scraper 1200 grit automotive wet-or-dry sand paper to remove the peach fuzz until the wood takes on a burnished appearance. You may have to repeat the process several times to get the fuzz out. It is worth the time and effort to do. OG

 

[necchi]

I have a bottle of aqua fortis that is at least 5 years old. Would that be a problem?

Maybe, who made it?

 

[Col. Batguano]

I would suggest NOT going finer than 320 grit with your whiskering. Many advocate no finer than 220 grit. Relatively modern service rifles (back when we made the stocks of wood) only went down to 80 grit. Very fine grit tens to bend the whiskers over and put them back int he wood. A more coarse grit will cut them. A lot of people use scrapers to get to their final smoothness rather than sand paper for that very reason.

 

[Zonie]

I totally agree with you.

I have found that using new 220 grit paper, applying only a very light pressure to it works great for removing whiskers without removing any wood from the surface.

One of the tricks here is to always sand (or scrape) against the direction that feels "rough".

Which direction is this?

To find out, after the water has dried, lightly rub your hand in both directions along the length of the stock.

One direction will show little resistance. The other direction you will feel thousands of tiny fibers trying to keep your hand or finger from moving along freely.

Once this resistant direction is determined, do all of the sanding (scraping) in that direction.

This will cut off or shear off the thousands of little fibers leaving the wood smooth and clean.

If you sand or scrape in the direction that shows little resistance, the sandpaper or scraper will just push the little fibers back down against the surface, leaving them behind so they can again "rise to the occasion" if they get dampened again.

It depends on the wood but on many stocks, this dewhiskering needs to be done several times before applying a stain or aqua-fortis.
When no new fibers rise after dampening the wood and letting it dry, it's ready for the final coloring and oiling.

 

[old gunsmith]

I tend to use a light circular motion with fine paper and a felt backer and that seems to work as well. We will use 220 grit for a mud rub but that will occasionally leave fine scratches. We have found 3M makes a sanding sponge for auto body shops and the ultra fine and micro fine work well for final sand out. I just hate leaving scratches that show up under the finish- it drives me nuts; hence the progression to very fine paper. OG

 

[Vaino]

Possibly it's the circular motion you use to sand the stock....you're sanding across the grain. I sand w/ the grain using 220 grit but as said before, in the direction of the roughness caused by the whiskers.

What's important is not only the finish used, but the procedure followed.

After the alcohol based stain is dry, a brisk rub w/ 0000 steel wool removes any unabsorbed stain and any errant whiskers....the surface is now very smooth and the color won't be cloudy. A good vacuuming readies the stock for the finish.

2-3 liberal, wipe on/wipe off coats of LMF sealer is applied w/ a complete dry between coats. The time before wiping off is 5-10 mins. After the last coat is dry, a brisk rub w/ 0000 steel wool removes any unabsorbed sealer.....want the sealer to only be in the wood. A vacuuming readies the stock for the last applications of a different finish.

2-3 very sparse coats of Wahkon Bay Trucoat is rubbed in w/ the fingers and yields a dull finish. Trucoat is very easy to apply w/ the fingers and is rubbed in until it feels dry. After a complete dry, rubbing w/ a fluffy towel produces a very low sheen.

This finish looks like there isn't any finish on the wood.

This procedure and finish is nearly foolproof and the only caveat is to not let the sealer set up.....Fred

 

[Col. Batguano]

One other thing; if you are planning on using aqua fortis, do NOT let steel wool near the stock until after you are done with the AF, and it has been neutralized. It will leave little steel flecks in there that the AF will turn black, and you'll get a freckleed stock.

 

[WVAED]

Are most gun builders still using aqua fortis?

 

[Col. Batguano]

I think asking the question to the vendors like Track would probably get you a more informed answer. I know that many are though.

 

[WVAED]

I hate to keep beating a dead horse on this subject but just one more question. Does anyone on here use stains from the local hardware store for their stocks? If so, what type of results do you get?

 

[Zonie]

I don't.

Every time I visit my local hardware store and look at the stains they carry, all I can find are stains that use either a oil base or one of those finishes that supposedly have the stain built into it.

Neither product, IMO, will do a good job for staining a rifle stock.

The oil base kind usually loads up the surface of the wood with oils of some kind and after one or maybe two coats at the most, the wood becomes saturated and won't accept any more stain.
Often, these oil based stains use finely ground pigments rather than stains to produce the color.
These pigments just lie on the surface of the wood rather than staining the wood fibers.

If the stain your looking at says anything at all about oil or paint thinner, beware! It will give very poor results.

The all in one stain/finish products really don't stain the wood because it is more of a matter of it being a colored finish. Of course, with these finishes, once they harden, applying more coats really doesn't do much because the thickness is so thin.

The really good stains are either water base or alcohol base.
They usually actually have stains dissolved in them and they will carry the stain down into and below the surface of the wood.

Another benefit of these stains is they dry quickly and you can apply multiple coats, without limit to darken or change the color if that is what you want to do.

Most of the guns I've built have several coats of Walnut with a thin additional coat or two of Mahogany to add a touch of red.

The thin coats of stain have been thinned by adding some denatured alcohol.

The advantage of using an alcohol based stain is it usually won't cause the grain of the wood to rise.
Water based stains can raise the grain but this is not much of a problem if the surface of the wood was first "whiskered" several times.

 

[WVAED]

:thumbsup:

 

[Vaino]

From doing a little bit of research there is a difference between stains and dyes...most people, including me, lump the 2 together and call them stains.

As Zonie stated, stains have undisolved pigment and these pigments stay on the surface and impart a color on the wood. The carrier which is normally oil just slightly penetrates the wood.

Dyes are what I use and they have their color dissolved in a carrier like water or alcohol. These dyes {called stains in popular usage} penetrate the wood and along w/ AF and ferric nitrate are the coloring agents best used on stocks.

I use Dangler alcohol based dyes {stains} from Jim Klein and use up to 3 different dyes separately to achieve the desired color on a single stock.

I'll persist on calling dyes stains because it's popular usage......Fred