Beware Traditions

[Toomuch_36]

Toomuch, let's put this Thompson Center thing to bed right now. They are made in Rochester NH. Not just the castings everything.

The do have some parts made in other parts of New England but have never imported any parts for their rifles. Every gun sold comes with a keychain that says "Proudly built in the USA".

I am not trying to start any arguments, T/C makes a very well built muzzleloader. The quality is very good, the warrenty is also very good and equal to most other manufacturers, and the accuracy is a matter of opinion (no more/no less) some have very good results with them and some do not.

T/C does manufacture their own stocks, barrels,castings for fruniture, and now maybe even their sights in the U.S. and all assembly is done in the U.S. The locks and triggers however are not, this does not detract from their quality however. This information isn't suposition but fact from dealings with T/C itself and from physical examination of the guns themselves.

The Fair Trade Commision states that for a product to wear the "Made in the U.S.A." lable that it must have at least 40% of its construction done here and T/C meets this requirement easily.

Toomuch
...........
Shoot Flint

 

[Pittsburghunter]

Where did you get this information? The locks of almost every sidelock ever made from T/C is interchangable and it is unique? Who told you this?

I will add something here now that I didn't before I also have worked in the Green Mountain Barrel factory which is on the same highway about 40 miles away. To be honest I have no clue why it's called GM because it is in Conway NH smack dab in the middle of the White Mountain Range :hmm:

I also know that they have always had a good relationship if you catch my drift. Sometimes something like a fire brings niehbors together.

Nuff said, prove the import thingy.

 

[Toomuch_36]

My informaton comes from one of T/C's former gunsmiths who was with them from the get-go, he retired in '87 and has since passed away in '90. Also as I said by physical evidence, untill reciently it was not uncommon, when ordering new stock, to get a T/C new in the box from the jobber with a Lyman lock installed or likewise a Lyman with a T/C lock (at the time the lock plates were interchangeable).

Toomuch
...........
Shoot Flint

 

[Pittsburghunter]

At this point I am speechless. Any comments from the peanut gallery?

 

[Pittsburghunter]

Sorry that sounded mean and I have no desire to be that way so I would like to allow Toomuch to give proof to what he said without further comment from me. If T/C has started using off seas production I would like to know that.

From what I saw working there every part was made on sight including their new inlines. They were even funny when I brought up the working at GM thing.

I am done on this thread. :v

 

[Zemenar]

Thanks for the number.
Now maybe I can find out about my order!
Bill

 

[Treerat]

Pittsburghunter,I wasn't meaning to step on anyones toes just relating my experirnce. Maybe it was because mine was built in 78 but it was a less than desireable product. I hope yours continues to function well and you have many more years of enjoyment from it.

 

[barebackjack]

Ive never owned a Traditions, but Ive looked at a few in stores, never liked the way they look their put together. Bad inletting of fittings, cheap ramrods, just dont look right.

 

[Old Ironsights]

Can't say about the Traditions Flinters, but their Buckhunter pistol (a modern design from some Indiana folks) is a sweet little gun.

 

[jim gray]

There's no need to get so upset, PH. Toomuch is right about the locks. I have a Lyman Trade Rifle and a T/C Renegade, (mine is from Fox Ridge Outfitters), and I did own a GPR as well. I suspect that you will probably choose not to believe this, but for the benefit of the other readers of this thread, I can assure you that the locks from any of those guns will fit and function on any of the others.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

There's no need to get so upset, PH. Toomuch is right about the locks. I have a Lyman Trade Rifle and a T/C Renegade, (mine is from Fox Ridge Outfitters), and I did own a GPR as well. I suspect that you will probably choose not to believe this, but for the benefit of the other readers of this thread, I can assure you that the locks from any of those guns will fit and function on any of the others.

Agreed that they will interchange, but that does not mean they are made in the same plant. Comparing my T/C lock to my Lyman, the first obvious difference is that the T/C plate has cast in "engraving" while the Lyman plate is smooth. The Italian's copied the T/C very closely and most parts will interchange but that does not mean T/C moved to Italy. T/C, along with Ruger were early leaders in the investment casting process for firearms and Ruger now provides some castings for T/C but those are pistol frames, not ML related. I do believe T/C Hawken and Renegade are 100% U.S. made. Lyman's are 100% Italian, just as good and cost considerably less. Take your pick but do know the difference. :grin:

 

[Cherokee]

Just thought I would add this. My experience was good with their customer service.
I bought a Kentucky rifle kit and opened it up and didnt have my underlugs and a screw missing. I called them gave them the number and in about 5 days I had my parts. Mine has never given me any problems its a sure fire. To date I never had a missfire. Mine is percussion.

 

[jim gray]

Coyote Joe,

I didn't mean to imply that the locks came from the same source. I was actually responding to this statement from Pittsburgh Hunter

The locks of almost every sidelock ever made from T/C is interchangable and it is unique? Who told you this?

.

The three locks that I had when removed from their guns could not be identified as to which they had come from without very close scrutiny. It was helpful at the time that my T/C still had the factory supplied sawn agate flint installed, and the frizzen on the Trade Rifle showed a great deal more use.

Cherokee,
I was in no way knocking T/C's (or Lyman's) product. I have had great service from mine and although I cannot claim to have had no misfires (a flintlock is an entirely different animal), I can say that I never had a misfire that was a result of the failure of the lock.

 

[Toomuch_36]

There's no need to get so upset, PH. Toomuch is right about the locks. I have a Lyman Trade Rifle and a T/C Renegade, (mine is from Fox Ridge Outfitters), and I did own a GPR as well. I suspect that you will probably choose not to believe this, but for the benefit of the other readers of this thread, I can assure you that the locks from any of those guns will fit and function on any of the others.

Agreed that they will interchange, but that does not mean they are made in the same plant. Comparing my T/C lock to my Lyman, the first obvious difference is that the T/C plate has cast in "engraving" while the Lyman plate is smooth. The Italian's copied the T/C very closely and most parts will interchange but that does not mean T/C moved to Italy. T/C, along with Ruger were early leaders in the investment casting process for firearms and Ruger now provides some castings for T/C but those are pistol frames, not ML related. I do believe T/C Hawken and Renegade are 100% U.S. made. Lyman's are 100% Italian, just as good and cost considerably less. Take your pick but do know the difference. :grin:

Hey Joe, you are correct the percussion lock on the Lyman does have a smooth face while the ones made for T/C are engraved the same as the flint lock plates. The flint plates are engraved for both the Lyman and T/C. And they will still interchange (flint to flint) (percussion to percussion).
The only mechanical difference is the locks made for Lyman (and Investarm's own lable) have the sear installed with a screw through the bridal into the lock plate, and the ones made for T/C have two trunions on the sear to align them between the lock plate and the bridal.

Toomuch
...........
Shoot Flint

 

[Twisted_1in66]

There's no need to get so upset, PH. Toomuch is right about the locks. I have a Lyman Trade Rifle and a T/C Renegade, (mine is from Fox Ridge Outfitters), and I did own a GPR as well. I suspect that you will probably choose not to believe this, but for the benefit of the other readers of this thread, I can assure you that the locks from any of those guns will fit and function on any of the others.

Agreed that they will interchange, but that does not mean they are made in the same plant. Comparing my T/C lock to my Lyman, the first obvious difference is that the T/C plate has cast in "engraving" while the Lyman plate is smooth. The Italian's copied the T/C very closely and most parts will interchange but that does not mean T/C moved to Italy. T/C, along with Ruger were early leaders in the investment casting process for firearms and Ruger now provides some castings for T/C but those are pistol frames, not ML related. I do believe T/C Hawken and Renegade are 100% U.S. made. Lyman's are 100% Italian, just as good and cost considerably less. Take your pick but do know the difference. :grin:

Hey Joe, you are correct the percussion lock on the Lyman does have a smooth face while the ones made for T/C are engraved the same as the flint lock plates. The flint plates are engraved for both the Lyman and T/C. And they will still interchange (flint to flint) (percussion to percussion).
The only mechanical difference is the locks made for Lyman (and Investarm's own lable) have the sear installed with a screw through the bridal into the lock plate, and the ones made for T/C have two trunions on the sear to align them between the lock plate and the bridal.

Toomuch
...........
Shoot Flint

Hey guys, the title of this thread says "Beware Tradtions", not "comparison of TC, Lyman, etc. locks." A lot of info about the interchangability and whether or not a particular product is made in the USA has been written here and you really need to start a thread with a relevant title instead of hi-jacking this one.

Cherokee added a post about his good experience with a percusion rifle, and I have no clue whether he's talking about a Traditions rifle, TC, or Lyman in his response to Coyote Joe. You've go good info here, just need to move it out of this thread.

Sorry for the rant, but we need to get back on track.

Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:

 

[JimG]

Well I'll jump into this mess with this-
I have owned two Traditions percussion rifles. One of which was an older Deer hunter model (had metal sights as opposed to the plastic sights they now have) I had bought used. Fit and finish was flawless, period. I had one problem, the nipple that came with the gun was undersized. The caps simply fell off the nipple if you did anymore than jiggle the gun. I bought a #11 nipple for a couple of bucks and that solved the problem. I NEVER NEVER had a single missfire ever with either nipple. Was reasonably accurate with either RB or conicals. Can't complain at all. sold it to a friend who was wanting a BP gun for deerhunting. He still has it and has had no problems. The second Traditions gun I currently own was a bunch of Traditions parts I pieced togther from a box of 'junk' I bought at a garage sale. I refinished the stock and tinkered with the locks and triggers and made a one off Traditions carbine. Since this gun cannot be compared to other factory assembled guns all I can say is that the lock and trigger have not failed yet and nor has the barrel blown up. I have looked at other new Traditions models and other than the odd roman nose type stocks that do not fit me well I see no problems with them. Metal to wood fit is better than average for any firearm. As for the people who have flintlock issues with Traditions, well don't all flinters have problems now and then? I'm not saying that they are the best but they are not as bad as some would like others to believe.

 

[drainpipe1]

Don; Often wondered the same thing. Here's a great web site called "Acronym Finder". You might place it in your "favorites" site for future reference, I did. IIRC= If I remember correctly.[url] http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&Acronym=iirc&Find=Find[/url]

 

[BuffaloGun]

This is my first time on this board and I'd like to voice my experience with Traditions. I bought a Shannadoah flinter some years back because I needed a cheap flinter for the PA deer season. The ramrod was a joke and I replaced it with an unbreakable synthetic unit straight off. After some experimentaion to find the right load it has given good service and has harvested many whitetails since then. The two times I had some issue araise, both of my own creation, Traditions was kind enough to take care of it. A while back the main spring broke. This was long after the warranty ran out and I admitted to many hundeds of rounds fired. They sent me a spring at no cost. I have the advantage of living a few hours away and was able to stop in to their location and found them helpful and forgiving. Are the guns top of the line show pieces? No, no even close. They don't pretend to be historicaly accurate. If I want realism I have a rather expensive .54 custom Lancaster rifle or a Christian Springs rifle I and finishing. But the old Traditions, now refinished and browned, still does a job every year in the PA winters. This yeat my teenage son will take it out and if he does his part, we'll have meat on the table.

 

[Twisted_1in66]

**SNIP** Are the guns top of the line show pieces? No, no even close. They don't pretend to be historicaly accurate. **SNIP**

Actually they claim their Flintlock Pennsylvania longrifle is historically accurate. They say, "This historically accurate rifle, holder of the enviable status of "authentic for reenactment use" from the American Revolutionary Brigade, recreates the finest features of the classic long rifles." Authentic for reenactment use? It's not even close. Makes me wonder who in the ARB ever gave it that status.

And of course I bought one specifically for that. Then, I found out that it was really a very ornate post-revolutionary war rifle and not accurate for reenactment at all.

Nonetheless to speak to your other point, it is a good shooter. Lock works great and ignition is virtually instantaneous.

--------------------------------
Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:

 

[Two Trails]

I have a .50 caliber Traditions flinter and have never had a problem with it. No ,it isn't a custom made piece but the the whitetails around here don't know the difference and it is a fine little brush gun. Iron sight accuracy out to about 75 yds is 3". Plenty of spark from the frizzen with an English 5/8" flint. If you were on a budget I'd say go with a Traditions.
Two Trails