Bill Large barrel question

[brazosland]

Just picked up a gun with a Large barrel. It’s likely 30 years old or so based on anecdotal evidence.

The seller told me that the bore tightened slightly at the muzzle and that this was a feature on Large’s barrels.

Can anyone educate me on this? I would like to cone the muzzle…not sure how that will interact with the design of this barrel if in fact it has this feature as described.

 

[The Crisco Kid]

Definitely shoot it awhile before you make any alterations that can't be undone.

That's a very nice looking rifle!

 

[EC121]

Some barrels bores are tapered and then choke bored for the last few inches of the barrel. Green River comes to mind. Large may have done some also. I think it is supposed to let the ball start easier from the breech and then tighten up before it leaves the barrel. You could do the same thing by polishing the bottom of the bore with some kind of polishing/grinding compound and leaving 6" or so of the muzzle normal.
Mark your cleaning rod and measure length of the choke. If it is very long, a light cone in the last inch probably won't make any difference.

 

[rich pierce]

Coning a Bill Large barrel would take away its advantages. Once a ball is short started, it rams very easily down a Bill Large barrel or any barrel with slight choke st the muzzle.

 

[simonbeans]

It’s a Bill Large barrel. Why would you want to do ANYTHING to a piece of muzzle loading history?

 

[brazosland]

It’s a Bill Large barrel. Why would you want to do ANYTHING to a piece of muzzle loading history?

You know…if I knew the answer to that question, I wouldn’t have had to post mine. Thank you for that incredibly uninformative reply. Perhaps your next attempt will be better…

I don’t know Mr Large or anything about his barrels other than being aware that he was well thought of at one time. I use my rifles to hunt, not compete and I prefer to operate them in a traditional manner (meaning without a short starter.) If someone can give me some info on what I have here and it’s scarcity then I will adjust accordingly.

Perhaps.

 

[brazosland]

Coning a Bill Large barrel would take away its advantages. Once a ball is short started, it rams very easily down a Bill Large barrel or any barrel with slight choke st the muzzle.

Thank you Rich.

 

[L Rupp]

I owned a Vincent rifle that was built by Don King and it had a Bill Large barrel. I don't remember the barrel having any kind of choke in it but that was 45 years ago. Just run a tight patched rod up and down the barrel and that should tell you if there is any constriction, ie choke, ect.

 

[Notchy Bob]

From what I have read, Mr. Large routinely made his rifle barrels with a very slight constriction or "choke" up near the muzzle. I believe he reamed the barrels this way before the rifling was cut. I understand that this "choke" was very typical in old-time rifles. The Hawken brothers were known to have made their barrels this way.

I know Robert Hoyt and Charles Burton, custom barrel makers, will make taper bored barrels on request, I think about .003" larger at the breech. They are the only ones I know of now who do this, although, as @rich pierce said, the now defunct Green River Rifle Works made choked rifle barrels in the seventies and eighties. I think the tapered bore is different from the choked bore, although the net effect is probably similar.

I don't know how far the choke extends down the bore, and I can't tell you what effect coning or funneling the muzzle might have on a barrel bored that way. I'm sure the old-timers had good reasons for making their barrels as they did.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[brazosland]

Thank you Bob. Seems to makes lot of sense from an accuracy standpoint and a fouling management perspective as well.

 

[DuncNZ]

If the choke is short and your coning runs into it you would have successfully enlarged the bore and may need a larger projectile or maybe you could use a thicker patch

 

[3 trees]

I have 2 Bill Large barrels. DONT CUT it as it is a piece of history! I meet him in the late 70s or early 80s. My brother in law told me at the time as he had proabley made more rifle barrels then any man, AS he was in charge of Douglas barrels for WW2!!

I might add both my barrels are over 40 years old and still tack drivers!

 

[JCKelly]

Large was the oldest and by far the Best muzzle-loading barrel maker of the 20th century.

For the sake of all that's Holy, don't change anything about that bore!

If you want something different, get it from one of today's Fine makers. One who knows what it's all about would surely give you a good price for your old barrel.

 

[simonbeans]

You know…if I knew the answer to that question, I wouldn’t have had to post mine. Thank you for that incredibly uninformative reply. Perhaps your next attempt will be better…

I don’t know Mr Large or anything about his barrels other than being aware that he was well thought of at one time. I use my rifles to hunt, not compete and I prefer to operate them in a traditional manner (meaning without a short starter.) If someone can give me some info on what I have here and it’s scarcity then I will adjust accordingly.

Perhaps.

Alas, my incredibly uninformative reply had a few incredibly INformative responses.
Bill Large barrels were and still are in a class that can be compared to the masters of muzzleloading arms. In my opinion, to do anything to change one would be Unforgivable.

 

[45man]

I am originally from Ohio and knew Bill. He made the very best barrels back then. For sure, leave it alone.

 

[brazosland]

Thanks for all the great replies, and the self serving ones (wow taking credit for every one else that contributed is rich!)

Nice to own something unique. Looking forward to learning more about this barrel and researching Large’s life a bit more.

 

[Mulebrain]

That is one dandy looking rifle, should do well with it! Large is a legend! He made gun barrels during WWII, then went into custom barrels after that.

Here is the only one I have in my stable, and haven't shot it much yet. But have to get ready for the bench matches in March

All 32lbs of it!

 

[beardedhorse]

William M. Large was one of the founding members of the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association. He also sold some of his rifling machinery to
Green River Rifle works in Roosevelt, Utah and helped them set it up. Some of his barrels had the stamp that is on your rifle. Others had JJJJ which represented initials of daughters. GRRW sold barrels choked at the muzzle and warned against shortening or altering the muzzle end - the result being the curse or be devilment of lost or poor accuracy. A 36 inch straight walled barrel I have is choked at the end of the slightly larger than 1" octagon that came from Bill with planer marks. It is tighter than .54 and a .526 round ball works best in it. I would refrain from funneling the muzzle for easier loading in the field. As others on the forum have stressed, you have piece of history valued by many. You could easily sell the barrel or rifle and get enough new barrels from contemporary makers that you could funnel the muzzle. Hopefully you don't need to reload quickly in the field or hunt and get a clean, humane kill with the first shot. You didn't mention what caliber the rifle was. Donald King was a rifle maker and gun club member in my home town (Wichita) and his rifles are also collectors items. He was also a crack shot like modern rifle maker Ron Long. J. Vincent and sons made distinct and handsome smaller caliber (.45 or less) rifles in Ohio, same state where Bill was set up and lived. You can find a lot of information on Bill on line. Bob Roller who made locks wrote a lot of reminisces of he and Bill. The old Green River Rifle Collectors Association newsletter had info of rifles built on Bill's machinery. Doc Gary White of GRRW knows a lot of that company's history and would be a good resource for Bill Large info. John "Dinglehofer" Baird , author of two books on Hawken rifles, published the Buckskin Report out of Montana and you can find in back issues articles mentioning Bill. I would definitely shoot it and see what kind of accuracy you can wring out of it. In 60's and 70's Bill Large Barrels were very popular and made good showings at Friendship (Indiana) NMRLA national competitions. Who built the Bill Large barreled rifle pictured on the piano?

 

[brazosland]

William M. Large was one of the founding members of the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association. He also sold some of his rifling machinery to
Green River Rifle works in Roosevelt, Utah and helped them set it up. Some of his barrels had the stamp that is on your rifle. Others had JJJJ which represented initials of daughters. GRRW sold barrels choked at the muzzle and warned against shortening or altering the muzzle end - the result being the curse or be devilment of lost or poor accuracy. A 36 inch straight walled barrel I have is choked at the end of the slightly larger than 1" octagon that came from Bill with planer marks. It is tighter than .54 and a .526 round ball works best in it. I would refrain from funneling the muzzle for easier loading in the field. As others on the forum have stressed, you have piece of history valued by many. You could easily sell the barrel or rifle and get enough new barrels from contemporary makers that you could funnel the muzzle. Hopefully you don't need to reload quickly in the field or hunt and get a clean, humane kill with the first shot. You didn't mention what caliber the rifle was. Donald King was a rifle maker and gun club member in my home town (Wichita) and his rifles are also collectors items. He was also a crack shot like modern rifle maker Ron Long. J. Vincent and sons made distinct and handsome smaller caliber (.45 or less) rifles in Ohio, same state where Bill was set up and lived. You can find a lot of information on Bill on line. Bob Roller who made locks wrote a lot of reminisces of he and Bill. The old Green River Rifle Collectors Association newsletter had info of rifles built on Bill's machinery. Doc Gary White of GRRW knows a lot of that company's history and would be a good resource for Bill Large info. John "Dinglehofer" Baird , author of two books on Hawken rifles, published the Buckskin Report out of Montana and you can find in back issues articles mentioning Bill. I would definitely shoot it and see what kind of accuracy you can wring out of it. In 60's and 70's Bill Large Barrels were very popular and made good showings at Friendship (Indiana) NMRLA national competitions. Who built the Bill Large barreled rifle pictured on the piano?

Builder is not visibly marked. Don’t want to remove the barrel unless absolutely required.
It’s a .40 also. My new doe deer and Turkey gun.
Great post, thank you for taking the time to write it.

 

[DuncNZ]

I have heard /read some where that Bill Large made barrels for early CVA rifles . Any ideas?