Bill Large Plains Rifle

[BigSkyRambler]

This is an interesting plains Rifle with a Bill Large barrel. I do not have in hand just yet. Has a 33" .54 caliber barrel. What I think is cleaver is the builder used a repurposed Whitney US musket lock dated 1848. What I consider to be a good representation of a frrontier lock replacement. Thoughts?

 

[david58]

Interesting! I like!

 

[planefixer da50]

the j.j.j.j. is bill large he had 4j. ranch out side Ironton,oh. he had 4 daughters names all start with J. he made many of the chunk gun barrels used at the sgt. York shoot in tn. , layed barrel over chunk of wood prone shots.

 

[MedicMike3762]

Awesome! Can’t wait to see some photos when you get it in hand!

 

[Urban Coyote]

the j.j.j.j. is bill large he had 4j. ranch out side Ironton,oh. he had 4 daughters names all start with J. he made many of the chunk gun barrels used at the sgt. York shoot in tn. , layed barrel over chunk of wood prone shots.

Exactly

Very interesting, and nice, rifle especially the barrel and lock thing.

Very cool, congratulations

 

[ORBushman]

 

[hanshi]

It all looks good to my old eyes.

 

[Rod Man]

Certainly a solid investment! Lock is on the wrong side though…

LOL!

RM

 

[VA Hawken]

Nice rifle. Would certainly add that to my collection if I could!

 

[ORBushman]

Nice rifle. Would certainly add that to my collection if I could!

 

[rich pierce]

The period challenge would be that this particular original lock did not have a fly and thus would not be suited for double set triggers. This modern version may have a fly.

 

[D.Summers]

I thought it was an original lock?

 

[BigSkyRambler]

The period challenge would be that this particular original lock did not have a fly and thus would not be suited for double set triggers. This modern version may have a fly.

I would think a period smith could rework the innards. I will post a picture of lock internals when I have it in hand.

 

[Twowithone]

Awesome looking rifle.

 

[rich pierce]

I would think a period smith could rework the innards. I will post a picture of lock internals when I have it in hand.

Anything possible. Easier to buy a lock with a fly than add a fly. I’ve done it.

 

[fleener]

I have Frank Bartlet rifle with a modern lock has been engraved with the Goulcher name to make it look older than it is. I will be interested in what you find out on it.

Fleener

 

[LongWalker]

I've modified musket locks to install a fly. The easiest way to do it is to slot the tumbler for the fly, cut the notch, then pin the fly in the slot. It is still a day's work with handtools, but I have better luck doing it that way than cutting a recess like on a Siler tumbler, for example.

 

[Notchy Bob]

That rifle is a beauty. Wow...

Barrels by Bill Large were legendary, and it is my understanding that the ones marked JJJJ were his top o'the line. Mr. Large had first class machinery, but he knew how to duplicate the work done by the old-time barrelmakers. His bores were generally tapered, just a couple of thousandths larger at the breech than the muzzle, effectively putting a small amount of choke in the bore.

I love that lock. I've handled a bunch of original 19th century military guns, including four or five over the past year, disassembling, carefully cleaning, and reassembling the locks. These 160-180 year old locks are still ready for service. The internal fit and finish, the quality of the springs and heat treatment, is all first-class.

The period challenge would be that this particular original lock did not have a fly and thus would not be suited for double set triggers. This modern version may have a fly.

I would think a period smith could rework the innards. I will post a picture of lock internals when I have it in hand.

I believe an old-time riflemaker would have very likely just ground the half-cock notch off the tumbler. Most people now consider this unsafe, but it was a very common practice years ago. Of the dozen or so 19th century sporting rifles with double-set triggers that my dad collected, only one had a fly. All of the others were finished without a half-cock. That may or may not be the case with this rifle, but it would not surprise me. I hope @BigSkyRambler will let us know if a fly has been installed in this lock, or if the half-cock notch has been ground off. Lots of photos would be appreciated!

The hammer on this lock is clearly a replacement, and it is possible that the internal parts are replacements, too, retrofitted to this original lock plate. If that is the case, the tumbler may very well have a fly.

Bob Roller, a master builder of locks and triggers, knew Bill Large and a number of guns and rifles were built with Large barrels and Roller locks and triggers. Mr. Roller would have been quite capable of re-tooling the mechanism of this old New Haven lock. If he did, he may have placed his mark on the inner surface of the lock plate. On the other hand, that looks like a Siler hammer screw. I suppose Siler internals could have been fitted to the New Haven plate.

I think this rifle is outstanding in many ways. Thank you for showing it!

Notchy Bob

 

[BigSkyRambler]

That rifle is a beauty. Wow...

Barrels by Bill Large were legendary, and it is my understanding that the ones marked JJJJ were his top o'the line. Mr. Large had first class machinery, but he knew how to duplicate the work done by the old-time barrelmakers. His bores were generally tapered, just a couple of thousandths larger at the breech than the muzzle, effectively putting a small amount of choke in the bore.

I love that lock. I've handled a bunch of original 19th century military guns, including four or five over the past year, disassembling, carefully cleaning, and reassembling the locks. These 160-180 year old locks are still ready for service. The internal fit and finish, the quality of the springs and heat treatment, is all first-class.





I believe an old-time riflemaker would have very likely just ground the half-cock notch off the tumbler. Most people now consider this unsafe, but it was a very common practice years ago. Of the dozen or so 19th century sporting rifles with double-set triggers that my dad collected, only one had a fly. All of the others were finished without a half-cock. That may or may not be the case with this rifle, but it would not surprise me. I hope @BigSkyRambler will let us know if a fly has been installed in this lock, or if the half-cock notch has been ground off. Lots of photos would be appreciated!

The hammer on this lock is clearly a replacement, and it is possible that the internal parts are replacements, too, retrofitted to this original lock plate. If that is the case, the tumbler may very well have a fly.

Bob Roller, a master builder of locks and triggers, knew Bill Large and a number of guns and rifles were built with Large barrels and Roller locks and triggers. Mr. Roller would have been quite capable of re-tooling the mechanism of this old New Haven lock. If he did, he may have placed his mark on the inner surface of the lock plate. On the other hand, that looks like a Siler hammer screw. I suppose Siler internals could have been fitted to the New Haven plate.

I think this rifle is outstanding in many ways. Thank you for showing it!

Notchy Bob

Thanks for the input, Notchy Bob. And to think, I originally bought this with the intention of reselling due to the desirabilityof Large barrels. But there is likely more here than that. I believe I will just keep this one. I deserve a nice Christmas present.

 

[Notchy Bob]

Thanks for the input, Notchy Bob. And to think, I originally bought this with the intention of reselling due to the desirabilityof Large barrels. But there is likely more here than that. I believe I will just keep this one. I deserve a nice Christmas present.

You bet!

I think your rifle is extraordinary, and I would be interested in knowing who actually put it together... and how he did it. I have no doubt that the Whitney/New Haven lock (or lock plate, at least), from an M1841 US "Mississippi" rifle, is an original antique, repurposed for this 20th century rifle build.

So, your rifle is not only a nice one, it is unique. I'll bet it's a shooter, too. I will certainly look forward to reading more about it, and seeing more pictures. If you ever decide to move it on, I don't think you'll have much difficulty finding someone to "adopt" it.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob