Bill to ban Lead Ammunition in Maine

[Zonie]

Unfortunately Zonie, everything we do, especially the things many of us here love and hold dear, has become entangled with politics.
It is pretty well impossible to discuss things like ammunition bans (lead or otherwise), special taxes applied to ammunition or ammunition components (NOT including Pittman/Robertson), attempts to stop hunting in one way or another, or really any restriction of our freedoms and liberties,,, without it involving politics.

If some snowflake gets hurt because their parry of choice got called out on being the ones restricting free speech through cancel culture, trying to ban firearms ownership by any means, trying to stop us from hunting, or trying to keep us under control by tells what businesses can be open and what can't and where we can go and can't (can go to Wal-Mart or the liquor store, but church is closed),,, if they are hurt or offended because their party got called out for this in a post on a forum,,,, damn them anyway. Let them go elsewhere, forum wise and country wise, and good riddance.

Although what you say is true, this is not the place to discuss politics.
If you want to talk about politics, join the paying members and become a MLF Supporter. Then, you can post political things in the Premium Member area of the forum. A word of warning though. Things can get very heated in that area.

 

[Ames]

Status : Public Hearings Monday, April 5, 2021 7:45 AM, Cross Building, Room 206 If you are interested in the bill, you might wish to send in a written statement or even learn if you can ZOOM the meeting.

What is the justification of the ban< other than all lead is bad !! LOL The bill my die a slow death via no action.

I'm old and don't ZOOM anything. That is, however, where I get my covid shots. Making plans to sit in and object in person.
Not politics. Principles. What the he.. am I going to do with 125 lbs. of roundball if this goes forward?

 

[coloradoclyde]

What the he.. am I going to do with 125 lbs. of roundball if this goes forward?

Start by reading the bill.

 

[Ames]

I read it.

 

[Brokennock]

Although what you say is true, this is not the place to discuss politics.
If you want to talk about politics, join the paying members and become a MLF Supporter. Then, you can post political things in the Premium Member area of the forum. A word of warning though. Things can get very heated in that area.

Okay folks,,,,, no more discussion of lead ammo bans in the hunting or regional,,,, or any other part of the forum not open to paying members.

A "ban," in place by law, requires a bill be passed, as such it is political by its very existence, a bill proposed or passed is political.

 

[VADSLRAM]

I don't understand the reasoning behind the timing of this. Just how much lead do BP shooters in Maine put out?? We are a niche sport. Maybe it makes sense for the regular smokeless seasons because there are so many more shooters out there. Maybe I'm wrong and every other Maine-iac has a flintlock they use daily.... But I doubt it
I would bet there were more round balls flying a hundred years ago than there is now.

 

[coloradoclyde]

The sad truth is that hunting with Muzzleloaders isn't a legitimate source lead pollution in the environment. For that you need to blame industries like power plants, agriculture, aviation and automobiles to name a few. Those sources will continue to pollute the environment for generations to come.

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

Unfortunately Zonie, everything we do, especially the things many of us here love and hold dear, has become entangled with politics.
It is pretty well impossible to discuss things like ammunition bans (lead or otherwise), special taxes applied to ammunition or ammunition components (NOT including Pittman/Robertson), attempts to stop hunting in one way or another, or really any restriction of our freedoms and liberties,,, without it involving politics.

If some snowflake gets hurt because their parry of choice got called out on being the ones restricting free speech through cancel culture, trying to ban firearms ownership by any means, trying to stop us from hunting, or trying to keep us under control by tells what businesses can be open and what can't and where we can go and can't (can go to Wal-Mart or the liquor store, but church is closed),,, if they are hurt or offended because their party got called out for this in a post on a forum,,,, damn them anyway. Let them go elsewhere, forum wise and country wise, and good riddance.

!00% agree with Brokennock. very hard to talk about things related to our hobby without bringing up the forces which work against us.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I can travel to any state in the union and show you industrial and consumer lead pollution, but I challenge anyone to show me signs of hunting related environmental muzzleloader ball pollution in Maine or any other state that hasn't already been adressed. In over 400 years of muzzleloaders on this continent, there's just no evidence of it, and no problem associated with it.

 

[Zonie]

Okay folks,,,,, no more discussion of lead ammo bans in the hunting or regional,,,, or any other part of the forum not open to paying members.

A "ban," in place by law, requires a bill be passed, as such it is political by its very existence, a bill proposed or passed is political.

I did not say we could not discuss lead ammo bans in the regular areas of the forum. I said, don't bring in the politics behind the law.

From one of my earlier posts, "As long as we discuss the issues and not the politics behind it we won't have a problem. "

Speaking of discussing the issue, the people who write these laws do not have the slightest idea of what traditional muzzleloading guns shoot. Because of this, it seems to me that if some of the muzzleloaders who shoot roundball would get ahold of the people who write the law and explain to them that only lead can be used in the traditional muzzleloading rifles which have barrels designed for shooting patched lead balls.

Explain that modern bullets that modern muzzleloaders use don't work with the deep rifling grooves in the barrel that traditional muzzleloading rifles have.
Explain how the number of hunters that shoot patched lead balls is small and the contribution of lead pollution in the State would be too small to measure.
Go on to explain that the people who are shooting modern shallow groove In-Line muzzleloaders cannot use patched lead balls in their guns because those guns barrels cannot shoot patched lead balls accurately. Unlike our traditional muzzleloaders, they can shoot non lead bullets without a problem.

Then, propose that an exception be written into the law that specifically permits the use of patched lead balls for shooting and hunting.
If this was done, the traditional rifles and modern reproductions of them that have been in use in the State of Maine for over 350 years could carry on the tradition of hunting in the State without a problem.
If such a exception permitting patched lead balls was in the law, the proposed law would not have any effect on those of us who shoot patched lead balls and it would remove all of the worrisome problems the proposed law has in it.

If any of our members who live in Maine are reading this, try to find out how to get ahold of the people who wrote this proposed law. Forget about their politics (no matter how hard that is to do). Forget that they are probably wanting to ban all hunting. Talk nicely with them. Tell them about our issues with the proposed law and how they can fix the potential problems it will cause. In other words, give them a quick course on what it takes to shoot a traditional muzzleloading rifle. Some of them will find the subject very interesting.
If you do this, you might be surprised to find several of them that will listen to you and be willing to revise the proposed law into something we can live with.

 

[Crane Senior]

I did not say we could not discuss lead ammo bans in the regular areas of the forum. I said, don't bring in the politics behind the law.

From one of my earlier posts, "As long as we discuss the issues and not the politics behind it we won't have a problem. "

Speaking of discussing the issue, the people who write these laws do not have the slightest idea of what traditional muzzleloading guns shoot. Because of this, it seems to me that if some of the muzzleloaders who shoot roundball would get ahold of the people who write the law and explain to them that only lead can be used in the traditional muzzleloading rifles which have barrels designed for shooting patched lead balls.

Explain that modern bullets that modern muzzleloaders use don't work with the deep rifling grooves in the barrel that traditional muzzleloading rifles have.
Explain how the number of hunters that shoot patched lead balls is small and the contribution of lead pollution in the State would be too small to measure.
Go on to explain that the people who are shooting modern shallow groove In-Line muzzleloaders cannot use patched lead balls in their guns because those guns barrels cannot shoot patched lead balls accurately. Unlike our traditional muzzleloaders, they can shoot non lead bullets without a problem.

Then, propose that an exception be written into the law that specifically permits the use of patched lead balls for shooting and hunting.
If this was done, the traditional rifles and modern reproductions of them that have been in use in the State of Maine for over 350 years could carry on the tradition of hunting in the State without a problem.
If such a exception permitting patched lead balls was in the law, the proposed law would not have any effect on those of us who shoot patched lead balls and it would remove all of the worrisome problems the proposed law has in it.

If any of our members who live in Maine are reading this, try to find out how to get ahold of the people who wrote this proposed law. Forget about their politics (no matter how hard that is to do). Forget that they are probably wanting to ban all hunting. Talk nicely with them. Tell them about our issues with the proposed law and how they can fix the potential problems it will cause. In other words, give them a quick course on what it takes to shoot a traditional muzzleloading rifle. Some of them will find the subject very interesting.
If you do this, you might be surprised to find several of them that will listen to you and be willing to revise the proposed law into something we can live with.

Zonie is totally spot on regarding this and many other issues regarding hunters. It does us absolutely no good to grouse about a proposed change in a law and do nothing. The hunting community has been out-organized by organizations that hire lobbyists to influence laws that meet that specific groups needs. Our representatives in local, state and federal government for the most part have no clue about the ramifications some of the nonsense they propose. There is more knowledge on this board about traditional rifles and hunting than probably any representative in our states. So if you want to make a change, read the legislation, contact your representative in your state and in Washington and make your voice heard. Pick your battles and be reasonable and respectful even if you don’t want to. Like your mother told you you’ll catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

Recently in CA state congressman in SF wanted a ban on bear hunting he had some really bad information about black bears being threatened in CA. People banded together contacted him, educated him and he withdrew the legislation. Also, in WY they were proposing a bill about reducing the ability of Outfitters to get licenses for out of state clients (yep, I use an outfitter, I’m old and elk hunting is new to me). Becasue of public and out of state pressure they defeated the bill. So, speak up and make your voices heard!

 

[Brokennock]

I did not say we could not discuss lead ammo bans in the regular areas of the forum. I said, don't bring in the politics behind the law.

From one of my earlier posts, "As long as we discuss the issues and not the politics behind it we won't have a problem. "

Speaking of discussing the issue, the people who write these laws do not have the slightest idea of what traditional muzzleloading guns shoot. Because of this, it seems to me that if some of the muzzleloaders who shoot roundball would get ahold of the people who write the law and explain to them that only lead can be used in the traditional muzzleloading rifles which have barrels designed for shooting patched lead balls.

Explain that modern bullets that modern muzzleloaders use don't work with the deep rifling grooves in the barrel that traditional muzzleloading rifles have.
Explain how the number of hunters that shoot patched lead balls is small and the contribution of lead pollution in the State would be too small to measure.
Go on to explain that the people who are shooting modern shallow groove In-Line muzzleloaders cannot use patched lead balls in their guns because those guns barrels cannot shoot patched lead balls accurately. Unlike our traditional muzzleloaders, they can shoot non lead bullets without a problem.

Then, propose that an exception be written into the law that specifically permits the use of patched lead balls for shooting and hunting.
If this was done, the traditional rifles and modern reproductions of them that have been in use in the State of Maine for over 350 years could carry on the tradition of hunting in the State without a problem.
If such a exception permitting patched lead balls was in the law, the proposed law would not have any effect on those of us who shoot patched lead balls and it would remove all of the worrisome problems the proposed law has in it.

If any of our members who live in Maine are reading this, try to find out how to get ahold of the people who wrote this proposed law. Forget about their politics (no matter how hard that is to do). Forget that they are probably wanting to ban all hunting. Talk nicely with them. Tell them about our issues with the proposed law and how they can fix the potential problems it will cause. In other words, give them a quick course on what it takes to shoot a traditional muzzleloading rifle. Some of them will find the subject very interesting.
If you do this, you might be surprised to find several of them that will listen to you and be willing to revise the proposed law into something we can live with.

I agree with the premise that we shouldn't grouse about it if we won't try to do anything constructive.
But, your "explain it to them and suggest a muzzloader exemption," scenario presupposes that they care.
They do not.


But, if we are speaking of contacting legislators, we are talking politics...

 

[OldMaineWoodsman]

The Bill isn't just about lead expended from muzzleloaders. It's everything, lead shot, lead core projectiles, shooting ranges, etc.

The theory is, projectiles fragment. You field-dress a deer, moose, what have you and lead fragments remain and have contaminated the entrails. Eagles or other birds of prey then consume the entrails and die a slow, lingering death from lead poisoning.

Other wildlife consume lead shot and suffer the same fate.

True, exaggerated or embellished, I agree that it all ties into firearms and hunting are bad, and must be banned. This is just one way to decrease or curtail it, and drive people away from it either by cost or inconvenience.

This is why it is important to politely contact your elected representative and spell out those concerns and facts that Zonie mentions. If you don't live in Maine, it may not hurt to contact the Governor anyway, because you can bet if it passes and becomes law, it will be coming to your State soon. And remember, be polite and write as a Conservationist with logic, not emotion.

 

[Zonie]

I agree with the premise that we shouldn't grouse about it if we won't try to do anything constructive.
But, your "explain it to them and suggest a muzzloader exemption," scenario presupposes that they care.
They do not.


But, if we are speaking of contacting legislators, we are talking politics...

IMO, talking about contacting legislators is not talking about the politics.

If you get into a, "Republican"," Democrat", "Independent", "liberal", "conservative", "Green", "Communist", "Marxist", "socialist", or any other "ist's", like the post I just deleted, THEN you are getting into talking about politics.

As for whether the lawmakers, "care" or "don't care" I think that some of them do. They just don't know anything about "old fashioned" muzzleloaders and what it takes to shoot them. I seriously doubt that any of them have ever shot a traditional muzzleloading gun and I suspect that some of them don't even know that people actually use "old fashioned" muzzleloaders to hunt with.

By the way, if you are talking to any of them, try to use the term, "old fashioned" rather than, "traditional". They will be able to get a better feel for the types of guns we are speaking about.

 

[VADSLRAM]

I wonder if BP rifles aren't even considered in this.
In VA There are exceptions to "period" weapons for most of the firearms regulations. We do have a pretty large re-enactor type lobby though with Yorktown and Williamsburg.
Might be worth writing the state congressworms about having a muzzle loading exception.

 

[griffiga]

Don't under estimate the guy I think is behind this. He has devoted his retirement life to getting all things hunting banned. When one scheme fails, he launches another. He has tried ending the moose hunt, ending bear baiting, ending bear trapping, banning hunting and trapping on State lands, and a whole gaggle of others.

He may not even be the culprit on this one, but he is dedicated and a real pain in the backside to the State DIF&W. I would recommend sending a letter or email to your local elected official and maybe even the Governor. I don't think she will sign it, but who knows in today's climate? If you write, email, or call, be polite and state facts. Let the anti's spread the disinformation.

I'm with others on the forum, I think I'd just shoot lead and take my chances.

 

[griffiga]

Can bizmuth be cast? I think so. Anyone try it?

wm

Not sure if it can be cast or not, but it would cost you $10 a shot!!!

 

[Woody Morgan]

Not sure if it can be cast or not, but it would cost you $10 a shot!!!

Ummm...a bit of an exaggeration, no?

34# of bismuth at Roto is $300. You can cast 952 250 grain projectiles from that.
$300 divided by 952 rounds is ~32 cents apiece.
Then again, numbers ain't my forte so you might wanna check them.

wm

 

[Blitz]

IMO, talking about contacting legislators is not talking about the politics.

If you get into a, "Republican"," Democrat", "Independent", "liberal", "conservative", "Green", "Communist", "Marxist", "socialist", or any other "ist's", like the post I just deleted, THEN you are getting into talking about politics.

As for whether the lawmakers, "care" or "don't care" I think that some of them do. They just don't know anything about "old fashioned" muzzleloaders and what it takes to shoot them. I seriously doubt that any of them have ever shot a traditional muzzleloading gun and I suspect that some of them don't even know that people actually use "old fashioned" muzzleloaders to hunt with.

By the way, if you are talking to any of them, try to use the term, "old fashioned" rather than, "traditional". They will be able to get a better feel for the types of guns we are speaking about.

Hello Thank you for bringing to the fore the words that will get your post deleted ,
I mentioned non o those words in a post about the reason lead was banned in California , yet my post was deleted as being political

Buzz

 

[OldMaineWoodsman]

It's time to consider banning all lead ammunition (bangordailynews.com)

This doesn't help.