Birchwood Casey or Laurel Mountain Forge

[crgator]

I apologize if this is a duplicate, but I didn't find it in a search (maybe I should try harder), but I'm trying to figure out which of these products to use to brown my barrel. I live in central Florida, so we have high humidity (90% not uncommon) which would probably work with LMF (from what I've read about it). But, it also seems like a timely project. The BC sounds like it would be quicker, but possibly the more difficult of the two.

Any advice from anyone out there who has used either, or preferably both? Time really is not a problem, other than an occasional lack of patience. I'm looking for something that looks good, and lasts and is hopefully not too difficult.

 

[Vaino]

I've tried both and now only use LMF......Fred

 

[Zonie]

I use both of them.

For small parts like lockplates, hammers and such, the BC Plum Brown does a good job.

That is because it is easy to control the heat on these small parts.
Ideally, the metal temperature should be in the 260°-285°F range.
Temperatures above this will cause the PB to sputter or dry to quickly to work.
Temperatures below this will cause the PB to release copper which will become plated onto the steel preventing further browning.

If the temperature is uneven, PB will color different zones in different colors resulting in a streaky look.
This is very true with large parts like barrels.

Every time I've used PB on barrels, it took at least 3 and usually 4 applications to get a moderately uniform appearance.
Each of these applications required washing the previously applied and baked on crusts that form from when PB is applied.

If you use PB, after your final coat apply some oil and let it sit overnight.
This usually darkens the color and evens out the streaks.

For barrels, I use LMF browning.
Although it is slower it is less frustrating to use on large parts because even if it looks streaky after the first coat, a second and third will make the surface a nice rich uniform brown.

LMF also roughens the surface slightly giving a much more realistic look to the surfaces.
(PB does not change the texture of the surface. If it is very smooth or shiny, it will remain that way after finishing.
Some may like this look but it is not the way the old guns actually look.)

 

[old gunsmith]

We use both in the shop; BC for small parts and touch up and LMF for barrels and larger parts. LMF can be a bit too aggressive in high humidity so its a good idea to be able to check its progress every couple of hours and to follow the directions to kill the rusting action when you can't be around to baby sit. Of the two, its my opinion that LMF produces a thicker and more durable finish. One word of caution however, in high humidity environments, both browns can turn quite black. If that does happen, you can strip the finish with white vinegar and start over but move to an air conditioned area where the humidity is lower. Good luck with the project- OG

 

[Grenadier1758]

Since you live in high humidity Florida, and you have a car, you have all the basic things to make a high temperature humidly chamber to brown your parts with LMF (or Wahkon Bay) browning solution. I made a couple of supports to hold my barrel off the floor of the trunk of my car. Small parts were suspended over a plastic tub. Follow the instructions to prepare the metal and apply the browning. Park the car in the sun and you have a 150 degree F browning hot box. Card and reapply until you have the degree of color you want. I got even browning of the parts with much less effort than using PB.

Now that I live in Missouri, I only have access to my browing box in the summer.

 

[Billnpatti]

Having used both, I prefer LMF. It does take a bit longer but yields a brown that I prefer.

When I used BC to brown a barrel, I made a jig to hold the barrel. It was simply a piece of 2 X 6 a few inches longer than the barrel. Then I added a couple of 2 X 6 uprights on each end. On one end, I drilled a hole just big enough to put a dowel through that would fit loosely into the barrel. I glued the dowel into place leaving about 3 inches sticking through the upright 2 X 6. On the other upright 2 X 6, I drilled a hole through which I could easily push a piece of the same dowel. I did not glue this dowel in place. then, I put the barrel into the jig by placing one end over the glued in dowel and lining the other end up with the loose dowel and shoving the dowel into the bore. The dowels should be close to the bore size but be loose enough to allow the barrel to be easily turned on them. Set up in this way, you can easily heat the barrel evenly with a propane torch until a drop of water sizzles on the surface. Apply the BC evenly using a gloved hand to turn the barrel in the jig as you apply the BC.

If the breach plug is in place, you cannot use the jig as I described. You modify the upright 2X6 by not putting in a loose fitting dowel but by cutting a notch into it into which the tang of the breach plug will fit. Use your gloved hand to occasionally raise up the tang from the notch so you can heat it evenly as you heat the barrel.

Be sure to thoroughly read the instructions for whichever browning solution you choose and follow them carefully and you should get a nice brown on your barrel. BC will brown nicely but I prefer the LMF brown a bit more and am willing to give it the extra time and work that LMF requires. LMF is not all that difficult, it just requires more time.

 

[Larry Akers]

Kind of depends on what you are going for--just color or a finish that will be resistant to wear and corrosion (rust). I have no use for any of the "instant brown" products because they only give color and no real protection. I have used the LMF product but for the way I create a finish it is WAY too strong. I dilute it 20 to one--20 parts distilled water to one part solution. A finish that is resistant to wear and corrosion takes time.

 

[silverfox]

I did my barrel in my garage at my bench. Put a rod in my vise vertical, slid the barrel on it and proceeded with the LMf. With the barrel vertical it was easy to turn and coat the entire barrel. It did take about 24 hrs. but was easy to card and redo the LMF in the vertical position. The barrel came out better than some I have done with BC PB and a lot less work and no use of a torch. I do like PB for small parts. Fox

 

[old gunsmith]

I do agree with you that LMF can be too strong particularly if you are going for the type of browning used on the military guns such as the 1841 Mississippi. That finish is more of a staining than a coating and is a coppery red color. We dilute LMF by 50% with distilled water and brown in a damp box similar to the John Bivins design where we tend to keep the humidity under 40%. It takes several coats just to start the brown and once we get a uniform light coating of rust we no longer apply LMF but card the rust to allow the rust to reoccur and card that to produce the red tone we are looking for. Doing a barrel this way might take us a couple of weeks.

 

[Feltwad]

Most of my browning's are original Damascus barrels for which I use a slow brown of my own recipe .Depending on the barrels it may take at least 5 days but a good browning is the preparing and the finishing
Feltwad

 

[Billnpatti]

Lordy mercy but that is pretty. Whatever you do, keep doing it because the results are magnificent.

 

[Billnpatti]

Note to LJA and Old Gunsmith: I have never tried doing it your way but if I make another rifle, I may give y'all's method a try. I do use a box to control the humidity but I have always used the LMF full strength. It usually takes me about at least 5 coats and sometimes as many as 10 coats to get the brown that I like. Lots of coating, waiting and carding.

 

[Col. Batguano]

That's a good method. I found that the drier the humidity, the longer it seemed to take to form in any kind of an even fashion. The problem with that was, the rust would be active in some areas, and be working pretty hard, and less so in other areas. The net result was that the amount of the pitting came out very uneven, and rough. That would also apply to barrels that are prepped really smooth. The rust doesn't seem to have a good place to grab on to and get started.

So it's counter-intuitive --but true--, that barrels prepped to 600 grit will come out rougher in the end (with LMF or cold browning) than barrels that are prepped to 220 grit. If you hang your barrel in a really moist and humid place, like a steam room, the rust seems to get going pretty fast, and pretty much all at the same time. You have to keep a close eye on it though, because even waiting a couple of hours too long can have it get out of control in a hurry. The moral to the story is you have to plan your days around what it's doing, rather than the other way around.

 

[Billnpatti]

My humidity "box" is actually a piece of 4 inch PVC pipe sitting in a tight fitting hole in a 1 ft. by 2 ft. plywood box. Inside the box is a 60 watt bulb and a pan of water. I hang the barrel inside the PVC pipe making sure that it hangs freely and doesn't touch the sides. I get a pretty good even coat of rust that way. But, like you said, once it gets going, I have to watch it closely to make sure that it doesn't get away from me. Sometimes it takes only about 5 coats but other times it will take as many as 10 coats. Maybe it is a difference in the type of steel the barrel is made of. :idunno:

 

[old gunsmith]

Let me just emphasize this is a method we came upon to accurately reproduce a very specialized finish, a thin coppery to ox blood coloration that would not have been correct for a sporting rifle of the period. I think the point I was trying to make was that LMF is a very versatile product and you can produce a great range of finish and tone depending on how you apply it. I'll bet we've all had "problem" barrels that just didn't turn out as we wanted; sometimes a little experimentation helps. I am more comfortable slowing the process down and controling the agressiveness of the LMF. I believe I've gotten more consistent results that way; but as the saying goes, "There is more than one way to skin a cat"(poor cat!) so please don't take my thoughts as gospel. OG

 

[Col. Batguano]

We use the same system of a hot box for impregnating skis with wax, except we make the box horizontal, and line the box with tin foil around the light bulb, and use a smaller bulb. 2-4 treatments and the bases are really chocked full of wax.

 

[crgator]

Thanks everyone for your opinions and advice. I'm pretty sure I'll be using LMF for the barrel. Will play it by ear on the rest of the parts. There was some good advice here, and I really appreciate it.

 

[boombyspark]

Now I have a new method of telling the humidity in my house. Had put one coat of LMF brown on my lock. It browned to a point that it would have been done, excepting several spots that did not take. So I put another coat on. After about 18 hours I went to card and every lock part was as black as black can be. Major panic. So I thought that I would check with LMF. In the meantime I neutralized with soda and believe it or not but it turned into brown. Actually a very nice deep brown. Why? LMF couldn't believe that happened.

 

[Zonie]

You got me there.

I know it's summer but I don't believe the temperature is approaching the "scalding" level yet, is it?

I mention scalding because if one browns the metal and does not oil it but instead, they plunge the part into boiling or near boiling distilled water the brown rust will turn into black rust.

This is the basis for the black surfaces we normally call "bluing".