Bismuth/Tin Alloy for Roundballs

[GreyWhiskers]

I cast some "non-toxic" roundballs from a bismuth/tin alloy that's available from Roto-Metals. The 7% tin is supposed to make it less brittle. My .490" RCBS mold throws a .496" ball that weighs 155 grains with the alloy. This mold normally casts a pure lead r/ball that measures .492" and weighs 178 grains.

The alloy is harder than pure lead but still malleable. A ball can be altered with pliers and dented with the tap of a hammer. This can't be said about those ITX (TomBob) r/balls that are on the market. They are hard as hell. The ITX balls can be shot into dirt and used again, over and over.

This alloy melts at a lower temp than lead (about 500*) and casts a smooth ball. I had to give the mold a bit more time to cool before opening it. If not, a pimple would appear on the surface of the ball.

I started and pushed a ball down a barrel that had the breach plug removed. The ball with a .010" patch started normally. The thicker patches needed a rap on the short started with a rubber mallet but then pushed down the barrel without too much trouble. The patches all had small holes from the rifling.

At the range I used my normal hunting load of 80grains of 3f and bear oil for patch lube. I fired 3 shots each with .010", .012", and .015" patches. I swabbed between shots. At 30 yards, the groups were around 1". Using the thicker patches, I had trouble pushing the ball down the barrel. All of the recovered patches were shredded.

I only recovered 2 of the balls. Shot into sandy soil, one was mushroomed. The other had broken into 2 pieces. Still a bit on the brittle side maybe?

I still need to shoot them at a longer distance but I think this alloy will work as an alternative to lead. The biggest issue is the larger diameter ball requiring a thinner patch. A r/ball mold of .485" might be best for a 50cal rifle.

GW

 

[jamesthomas]

I wouldn't use a ball that might break up on impact with a game animal. Btw, ya'll folks in California worry to much, If I lived there I would use a lead round ball for hunting, just have a couple of brass, or ITX round balls with you and if the game warden stops you just show him the brass or ITX balls you have. Since they are too hard to pull what's he gonna do? drive you to a range, make you shoot in a dirt bank and dig for the ball? Somehow I don't think the game guys are that worried about muzzleloader hunters.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Perhaps you should read the law.
a lead test can tell if the ball is lead without removing it from the barrel.

 

[GreyWhiskers]

Being a long-time DFG Hunter Education Instructor the last thing I'd want to do is get caught breaking the law while hunting.

And, I'm not looking for a way around this regulation, I'm searching for a solution. The traditional ML hunters are at a big disadvantage by going non-toxic.

As far as the ball being too brittle, I'm not sure it is. I had a .62cal pure lead r/ball split in half on it's way through a hog.

I plan to put a couple of these r/balls into ballistic gel next Saturday at a Hunter Ed Clinic. That should give me a better idea of how it will act in a big game animal. GW

 

[mooman76]

A stack of wet phone books or newspapers work well too.

 

[THBailey]

Thanks much for the info on this. I too have been scratching my head on this non-lead issue. I look forward to reading about your further testing.

 

[matt denison]

I too got a pound of the "93-7" alloy from Roto. I cast some .530 and some .562's from it. I haven't had time to shoot them yet. I did find that they filled out the mold well, nominal dimensional differences between 93-7 and pure lead when I did an average of ten balls. Weight was approx. 16% less than lead but the silver lining there is that you get more balls per pound of alloy than you do with lead. They are obviously more brittle than pure lead, you can tell when cutting the sprue and I can't scrape them with my thumb nail. However, I feel confident that at least in the larger sizes they will kill game cleanly.

I look forward to the results of your gelatin testing.

 

[nkbj]

Has anyone looked at the relative low cost of mild steel balls?

 

[paulab]

Anybody thought of casting with lead free solder? It is available everywhere and should make a pretty good bullet [but lighter than lead.] It will certainly cost less per pound than the exotic stuff.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Anybody thought of casting with lead free solder? It is available everywhere and should make a pretty good bullet [but lighter than lead.] It will certainly cost less per pound than the exotic stuff.

Done it . its lighter and harder but makes a nice ball. shot ok too. made it out of 95/5 solder. still not cheap though.

 

[Zonie]

The 95/5 solder (95% Tin, 5% Antimony) would work but it does cost about $20 to $35/pound.

It melts at about 465 degrees F.

Back in the day, there was also a lead solder known as 5A that was 95% Lead, 5% Tin.
This solder is also still around so if your going to spend all of that money, read the label to make sure your getting the Tin/Antimony kind.

That brings me to the real problem.

There you are, quietly hunting in California with your muzzleloader loaded with your non-Lead roundballs or bullets.

Suddenly a Wildlife officer is tapping you on the shoulder and wants to know why your hunting with lead roundballs which are clearly against the law.

What do you do?
The silver colored balls look just like lead.
The guy is smart enough to know hard forms of lead exist.

I guess I would carry a photocopy of the non-Lead solders label and tell him I cast these NON-LEAD balls out of THIS (showing him the picture).

I don't know how he would respond but I can't think of any other way short of carrying a approved metallurgical labs test report.

(Although one is supposed to be considered innocent until proven guilty, the G&F wardens I've dealt with assume your guilty on the spot.)

That brings up the question, just how are they going to enforce this law?
Supplying each warden with a metal testing kit seems to be an expensive way but it is about the only fair way of testing the projectile.

That's why I still think the muzzleloading hunters, who represent a very small percentage of the total number of hunters, should be able to get the G&F people on their side and get muzzleloaders excepted from the Non-Lead law.

If course, doing that would require the muzzleloading hunters to get up off their ***** and work to see their opinions are known to the G&F people and their legislators.

 

[Cpl. Ashencheeks]

That brings me to the real problem.

There you are, quietly hunting in California with your muzzleloader loaded with your non-Lead roundballs or bullets.

Suddenly a Wildlife officer is tapping you on the shoulder and wants to know why your hunting with lead roundballs which are clearly against the law.

What do you do?
The silver colored balls look just like lead.
The guy is smart enough to know hard forms of lead exist.

I guess I would carry a photocopy of the non-Lead solders label and tell him I cast these NON-LEAD balls out of THIS (showing him the picture).

I don't know how he would respond but I can't think of any other way short of carrying a approved metallurgical labs test report.

(Although one is supposed to be considered innocent until proven guilty, the G&F wardens I've dealt with assume your guilty on the spot.)

That brings up the question, just how are they going to enforce this law?
Supplying each warden with a metal testing kit seems to be an expensive way but it is about the only fair way of testing the projectile.

That's why I still think the muzzleloading hunters, who represent a very small percentage of the total number of hunters, should be able to get the G&F people on their side and get muzzleloaders excepted from the Non-Lead law.

If course, doing that would require the muzzleloading hunters to get up off their ***** and work to see their opinions are known to the G&F people and their legislators.

That would be so nice if we could get an exemption, but better yet, a repeal based on 2nd Amendment grounds.

Would Bismuth/Tin have terminal impact problems as a patched ball?

I have a small pocket sized roll of alphametals lead free 95/5 Tin/Antimony solder with the label. I suppose I could carry that, along with a small butane torch (like the ones the crackheads use) :shake: , a portable mold and melting spoon and cook up a non-lead roundball for the game warden right there. The officer could even have a small clip off metal off the roll.

It seems really to be only about complicating our rights to keep and bear arms by attacking our privileges to hunt.

The ITX are fairly expensive, but they will work as PRB with a thin patch in a muzzleloading rifle or pistol.

Cap and ball is different matter all together. This really bothers me to no end.

I wish somewould consider making a lead-free conical that would seal in the chamber and engage the rifling in a cap & ball pistol. Crosshatching the sides might be the way to accomplish that in a lead-free conical, but with some alloys I would be afraid of wrecking the rifling on a C&B revolver.

Maybe someone could even come up with a composite of two different alloys or materials on the conicals to accomplish the seal where it would not damage the rifling.

Someone should exploit this market while our nation's constitutional laws are still in hiatus.

 

[mooman76]

What about Zinc or would it be considered toxic also? It's a bit hard but also other subs will but it is cheap and available and will melt at slightly higher temp.

 

[GreyWhiskers]

That brings me to the real problem.
There you are, quietly hunting in California with your muzzleloader loaded with your non-Lead roundballs or bullets.
Suddenly a Wildlife officer is tapping you on the shoulder and wants to know why your hunting with lead roundballs which are clearly against the law.


I'm instructing at a DFW Advanced HE clinic on ML hunting this weekend. A DFW Patrol Lieutenant is attending because he wants his wardens to have more info on muzzleloaders they encounter in the field. I plan to bring this up with him.

That's why I still think the muzzleloading hunters, who represent a very small percentage of the total number of hunters, should be able to get the G&F people on their side and get muzzleloaders excepted from the Non-Lead law.



DFW has no say in the regulation. It was the state legislature. All DFW can do is enforce it.

If course, doing that would require the muzzleloading hunters to get up off their ***** and work to see their opinions are known to the G&F people and their legislators.

That's true. But the population centers of the state make it difficult to change regulations like this. I'm sure that AZ has the same problem.
GW

 

[Zonie]

I realize the DFW does not have a direct vote in the issue however, if they agree that the number of muzzleloaders used for hunting is small and the use of lead in them would have very little or no measurable impact on the amount of lead used in hunting, that can be a significant tool to use on the legislators.

Telling all of the congressmen,
"The DFW agrees that allowing muzzleloading firearms to use traditional lead balls would have no effect on the environment or the health of the Condor.
Please contact Mr. XXXX YYYY, head of the California DFW to verify this....."

would have much greater impact than telling them,
"Shooting lead balls out of a muzzleloader won't damage the environment..." .

 

[nkbj]

Does anyone believe that concern for the environment is the driving force behind banning lead bullets? Nah. Nope. Unh uh.

On lead testing, felt tip markers that go in your pocket are a common tool nowadays. Rubbing the ball on a piece of paper and rubbing the marker on the place the ball was rubbed would probably be all that was required.

 

[MacRob46]

Move to a state which is governed by people with a little common sense.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

the problem with all these substitute projectiles is the same as the problem with non-lead shot for waterfowl. The specific gravity isn't dense enough to carry the balls energy like lead. A tin/bismuth ball will drop even more of it's energy than lead at 100 yds. Punch all the holes in paper that you want, but the issue is game and penetration. I am primarily a target shooter and frankly could care less how slow a ball punches through a piece of paper as long as the group is small. But for hunting, some of these substitutes may as well be made of styrofoam because they won't be worth crap at 100 yds for hunting unless the material has a specific gravity close to lead. There is such a material, but the cost would be prohibitive. Gold.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

these are some specific gravities of common metals. There are a few that would be as effective as lead, but they would be more expensive than gold. (I didn't list those)

pure lead = 11.35
tin = 7.31
bismuth = 9.79
brass = 8.4
iron = 7.03
steel = 7.80
Monel = 8.97
pewter = 7.76
copper = 8.9
phosphor bronze = 8.88
Gold (22K) = 17.5

there isn't anything that competes with the quality of lead for weight and cheapness. Bismuth is several times more expensive

 

[tecum-tha]

Have Jeff Tanner make you a .485 mold, maybe even a .480. Then you can shoot thicker patching not prone to rip that easy, especially with the harder balls.
He made me a .480, a .630 and a .520.
I use them for lead though, but he builds whatever diameter you want for a reasonable price.