Black powder availability

[Rifleman1776]

the number of people who would be interested are a very small proportion of the shooting community.

Sadly, yes. The introduction of synthetic powders and unmentionable (so-called) muzzle loaders has changed our avocation from being a shooting sport to a small group holding on to memories of early American lifestyles. As far as the market is concerned, we barely exist.

 

[Jim C]

Sad but true Rifleman, so sad and true!

 

[Steve Rosen]

The hazmat fee on caps and black powder (as well as smokeless powder and primers) is not a "Government Fee", it is a surcharge imposed by UPS or FedEx that simply contributes to directly to their respective bottom lines (less the cost of the sticker they put on the box, of course). The only "Government" involvement is the classification of the aforementioned items a "hazardous materials"(along with a host of other things) by the Government via the CFR 49 statutes published by the Department of Transportation.

 

[Col. Batguano]

Is a Hazmat fee somehow different than an ORM-D sticker or handling?

What exactly are they doing differently in handling this stuff that makes it different than say a box of nails? I know the trucking companies rate thing differently based upon the fragility of the cargo. One extreme is a box of nails, and the other one would be a shipment of Faberge` eggs.

 

[Jim C]

"The hazmat fee on caps and black powder (as well as smokeless powder and primers) is not a "Government Fee", it is a surcharge imposed by UPS or FedEx that simply contributes to directly to their respective bottom lines (less the cost of the sticker they put on the box, of course). The only "Government" involvement is the classification of the aforementioned items a "hazardous materials"(along with a host of other things) by the Government via the CFR 49 statutes published by the Department of Transportation."


I was under the impression that it was regulated and fees were imposed by the Dept of Transportation, and or, the National Transportation Safety Board. Nonetheless, thanks for further piquing my interest on the subject. Not that I doubt what you say, but just out of curiosity, I will delve deeper into the issue and see what, if anything, that I can come up with.

 

[Jim C]

Exactly, this all just came about in the not too distant past. Makes one wonder what they changed that would warrant such an exorbitant fee as if the astronomical costs charged for regular everyday shipping were not already enough.

 

[FishDFly]

"I always buy my powder in 25lb lots. I can use this much easily in 2 shooting seasons."

I have to ask, how does a person shoot 12 and 1/2 pounds a day??

 

[Jim C]

He lists 1F in 25lb batches, he's obviously shooting cannons. Re-enactors can go through a tremendous amount of powder in hurry. He also said "seasons" not "sessions". A shooting session would be a day, a shooting season would be several months.

 

[jfaldo]

That says season not session that's how. Also I use a bunch of 1F in my Sharps 45-2 7/8. I do have a cannon also but haven't shot it in years. So with my muzzleloaders and my other black powder guns 50lbs of powder in two years is about what I will usually shoot.

 

[fire-n-brimstone]

i have been using my old miroku flinter and AMR shotgun and my brothers Tingle i bought him for his birthday when i can get it from him lol. i make most of my own blackpowder. so its not bad but caps are getting harder to come by.


Andy

 

[Okie Hog]

The US Government (DOT) sets the rules for shipping of hazardous materials, including black powder. The US government does not mandate hazmat fees. UPS and FedEx charge hazmat fees.

The hazmat fee often varies, depending on seller. Most black powder sellers waive (eat) the hazmat fee when you buy a certain quantity of powder.
http://cfr.vlex.com/vid/173-170-black-powder-for-small-arms-19942395

 

[Col. Batguano]

A "standard" charge in a Model 1841 6 pounder cannon would be 1 pound of cannon grade powder.

 

[Jim C]

Thanks for clearing that up Okie, but the question that another member and myself brought up above also is just exactly what is it that the shippers are doing differently now that they were not doing in the not too distant past that would warrant such an exorbitant rise in cost such as $28 in hazmat fees just to deliver a pound of BP, or a tiny tin of a hundred percussion caps. It just does not reason out how they can justify that when they used to, not long ago, did not charge anywhere near that for the service. You can google till your fingers are sore and never get an answer to that question so the only logical one being is that they do it just because they can. That being said, it just is what it is so when we order these products the only real option we have to cut those costs is to simply order as much as we can afford to, up to and including, the largest legal amount of the product.

 

[Okie Hog]

just exactly what is it that the shippers are doing differently now that they were not doing in the not too distant past that would warrant such an exorbitant rise in cost such as $28 in hazmat fees just to deliver a pound of BP, or a tiny tin of a hundred percussion caps.

Little or nothing.

The retailers are doing the charging. We don't know what UPS and FedEx charges the retailers. You can bet it's less than the buyer pays. Just maybe the retailers are lining their pockets.

It may be a sales gimmick: The retailers are telling us to order a big bunch of powder and they will eat the hazmat fee.

 

[Kansas Jake]

Another option is to pick up some BP for personal use when you are traveling through states where there is a distributor. I picked up 5 lbs. last summer in AR from a distributor there. That saved on the shipping and hazmat. I think Graf & Son will sell over the counter.

 

[Jim C]

I don't doubt it a bit, just a gimmick to force you to buy as much as you can on each purchase.

 

[Jim C]

Don't do a whole lot of traveling. Only thing I can do is what I've been doing and that is to buy 10 lbs at a time which lasts me a couple of yrs. If you buy it local, IF you can even find it, they want almost double what you can get it online for.

 

[necchi]

You started this topic as advice to purchase bigger quantities of powder so the hazmat fee per pound is lowered.
And now say the hazmat fee is a gimmick too force the purchase of larger quantities??

UPS/Fedex have standard hazmat shipping fees.(period) (Let google help you)
Hazmat for 1# or 25# is the same.
What the shipper charges you for that hazmat fee and handling is the variable.

 

[Jim C]

"You started this topic as advice to purchase bigger quantities of powder so the hazmat fee per pound is lowered. And now say the hazmat fee is a gimmick too force the purchase of larger quantities??"

Obviously you haven't even read the entire thread. I did no such thing. I started this thread in an attempt to help others find real black powder and plenty of it at a reasonable price because I kept running across others posts claiming they could not find powder locally and when they did it was $28 per lb. The hazmat thing became an off shoot of the discussion then lead to the question of who was responsible for that extra cost, and why it has been ridiculously jacked up in the recent past. Once that tid bit of information was cleared up then I decided to agree with another poster that it was indeed a gimmick of sorts. Open your mind and read before you reply to someone, it will set you free. I didn't join this forum because I think I know everything already. I joined it to discuss this sport and to learn from it. You can't use google for every little thing, if you could I would have never joined the forum to start with.

"UPS/Fedex have standard hazmat shipping fees.(period) (Let google help you)
Hazmat for 1# or 25# is the same.
What the shipper charges you for that hazmat fee and handling is the variable."

I already know all of that. Do think I'm plumb stupid or something?

 

[Dewey]

What I found on-line :

International Dangerous
Goods and Hazardous
Materials
”“ UPS accepts Hazardous Materials only from customers with a UPS Dangerous Goods Agreement
(contract) in effect and a Scheduled Pickup account, and then for transport only within
and between all 50 states and Puerto Rico.
”“ Materials prepared in accordance with Title 49 C.F.R. 173.4

Package
”“ UPS Air Services and
UPS 3 Day Select®: $40.00
”“ UPS® Ground: $28.50

So if you buy more, the hazmat cost is divided (if in the same package shipment - there are size restrictions, too.).