Black powder availability

[mooman76]

This topic has been discussed at length many times so most all here know you can order it. The problem is allot of folks don't have the money to make it worth while by ordering a quantity large enough to make it worth while. Some states are also very restrictive when it comes to shipping BP and up in Alaska, forget it. It has to be shipped ground. It can be done to Alaska but you are talking allot of $$.
It's my understanding that companies that ship hazmat items have to pay a blanket fee to the shipper like $10,000( I don't know the exact amount, just an example)a year so they are just recouping their cost.
Picking it up on a trip is also a good idea if you happen to go by a place that sells it. Last trip I tried but they no longer sell it. I am planning another trip in a couple weeks and hope that place didn't quit selling it also.
It's also a good idea to get together with a few folks if you can and split a shipment to cut costs.

 

[Jim C]

I understand all of that and I agree with you. Some information on it I already knew before this thread and some more I learned from other members through this thread.
I ran across a couple of posts from other members in other threads and it was obvious that they didn't know how to find it so I sent them a PM with the suggestive explanation that I started this thread with and they answered me back thanking me for it. I'm just trying to help a brother in need, that's all. I appreciate your reply and I also appreciate it even more that you were not a smart aleck about it like a couple of certain others on this forum can be about most any subject or issue.

 

[necchi]

because of the strict regulations and red tape the gov't has placed on brick and mortar retail establishments for the storage of BP in the not too distant past.

Well not really, the gov't reg's haven't changed much in the last several decades, they require a double locked steel box that has a steel chain or cable attached directly to the ground. The biggest change has been the insurance rates for both the building and liability forcing some places to keep strict records of individual sales.

The retailers just simply do not want to deal with the red tape involved any longer.

Kind of, but again it's the cost of insurance not "red tape".

there is a gov't imposed hazardous material handling fee of $28 per shipment. It doesn't matter if you buy one pound, or the legal limit of 50 lbs, the fee is the same for each shipment, $28.

The gov't doesn't impose a hazmat fee,, the shipper does. The shipper has to abide buy gov't rules and charges us the extra fee to do it. Most of it is just time spent on paper work.

For that very reason I always buy at least 5 or preferably 10 pounds or more at a time when I do buy so as to keep from having to pay $44($16 for the pound of powder plus $28 hazmat fee) for one pound of powder.

Thank's, that's math,, it helps.

Do think I'm plumb stupid or something?

Nope, just slightly misinformed yet willing to share.

 

[Jim C]

Thanks for the reply.
The reason I said that...."because of the strict regulations and red tape the gov't has placed on brick and mortar retail establishments for the storage of BP in the not too distant past.".......is because I was quoting what they have told me themselves. Seems they've made more stricter rules on the storage, as well as the paper work that goes along with it, according to what I've been told.

 

[Jim C]

Do think I'm plumb stupid or something?

Nope, just slightly misinformed yet willing to share.

Okay...Thanks..... I'll buy that :wink:

 

[Tinker2]

Speaking from a retail point of view:

A federal firearms licenses does not let you sell black power, you must pay for an explosive license also.
Plus all of the other expenses listed.
Included is a lot more federal interference and scrutiny.

And all this when your buying public can buy it at the same cost dealers do.

At the time this started there were fears they would go after lead too :hmm:


William Alexander

 

[Jim C]

Exactly. So I've been told by them as well, that's why all of the retailers who used to sell it no longer sells it anymore. The only way they can make a profit is to make it unaffordable to the point that they sell so little it's just not worth fooling with.

 

[azmntman]

Speaking from a retail point of view:

A federal firearms licenses does not let you sell black power, you must pay for an explosive license also.
Plus all of the other expenses listed.
Included is a lot more federal interference and scrutiny.

And all this when your buying public can buy it at the same cost dealers do.

At the time this started there were fears they would go after lead too :hmm:


William Alexander

Think I read CA just went totally lead free?

 

[Jim C]

Our last and final lead smelter (Doe Run in Mo.) was scuttled in Dec '13 by the EPA extortionists. We are now officially relegated to being totally dependent on our lead supply to come from Australia, Japan, and Red China.

 

[irishtoo]

i buy from Maine powder house. 25lb case. mix and match if you want. he waives the fees for a 25lb case. irishtoo

 

[Jim C]

That's an even better deal than Grafs. They ship free, but still charge the hazmat fee. Thanks for the info :grin:

 

[Dewey]

If you do the math, Powder, Inc. is a bit cheaper than MPH when ordering 25 lbs ($405 vs $413.75).

MPH does beat Powder, Inc. for a 5 lab order ($125.75 vs 127.5).

Graf's is a lot more expensive than either of the above (which is for Goex 3F, btw).

I order 5 lbs at a time, but have used Powder, Inc. in the past. Will prob use them in the future, too, as I have had no problems with the orders and the $1.75 total difference is nbd.

Everyone will charge the hazmat fee ... it just might be hidden in the overall cost, IMHO.

 

[necchi]

Our last and final lead smelter (Doe Run in Mo.) was scuttled in Dec '13 by the EPA extortionists. We are now officially relegated to being totally dependent on our lead supply to come from Australia, Japan, and Red China.

Another internet myth,, you really should get things straight before spreading it around. http://www.politifact.com/florida/...ullets-will-have-come-overseas-after-epa-clo/
Doe Run is still in business; http://www.doerun.com/what-we-do

 

[Jim C]

I hear ya! I'm going to stop commenting on and relaying ANYTHING I read on the net. After I made that post, which I was reading about the issue on the net before hand, a gentleman sent me a private message that had just happened to have some personal dealings in the matter and informed me that in reality it wasn't as MUCH the EPA's involvement for the closing as it was the fact that the company could not afford to update to stricter regs(who makes up the regs?). So you see, it's all beginning to sound like one big he said she said and I still don't know what to believe one way or the other, because according to him they ARE shut down, but according to your link they are not. You can't believe anything you hear or read anymore and only about half of what you actually see with your own eyes, so just to heck with it ALL
I copied this out of your link......Doe Run will operate its refinery, stripmill, and alloying and casting operations at the Herculaneum, MO facility through 2014.........but also noticed the copyright at the bottom of the page as 2015, again LMAO!

 

[Tinker2]

The only way they can make a profit is to make it unaffordable

Well it would have to sell at the same price as other retail gunpowders.

This came up before and the consensus then was as long as they had theirs the heck with anyone else
Most of the responders did not have a clue what was said.

Link

I don’t think we can fix the problem.
I am open to any ideas but I think the (just buy a case people) are part of the problem.
I am sure I will get jumped on for bringing this to light but till Walmart can sell it off their shelf and the general public can not buy it at wholesale the problem will just get worse.

There is no place in my state that legally sells black powder that I know of.
And yes I do buy my powder by the case but it is because it is all that is left to me now.



William Alexander

 

[Dewey]

LOL, I can't even get 22LRs at my Walmart ... forget them even WANTING to sell black powder. Not enough customer demand. If there was, I bet they would get the paperwork done and sell it.

The only way for me to buy 22LRs, recoil-managed 7mm mags or BP is online, so that's what I do. If someone would rather not shoot than buy online, that's their decision.

Heck ... other than food and fuel, I buy most things online now anyhoo. Amazon, TOW, NSW, Lancaster Archery and Universal Radio all love me, as do the two forum folks I've bought muzzleloaders from this year, LOL.

 

[Dewey]

Forgot to add ...

Yes, buying a case by mail is not as convenient as going to a store and picking up a can, and is more expensive in the short run - but it just may be cheaper in the long run with inflation.

Plus if there ever gets to be a REAL shortage, you've got your stash.

The way I figure it, God willing, I will shoot it all up regardless of how much I get.

 

[azmntman]

:thumbsup: Dewey KNOWS

 

[jfaldo]

Yes, buying a case by mail is not as convenient as going to a store and picking up a can, and is more expensive in the short run

OK I'm Polish and I'm left handed so I'm somewhat handicapped but you need to explain your math because I don't get it. I can order it (i.e. Goex) for $16.20lb in 25lb lots including shipping and hazmat. It comes to my door so I don't have to drive anywhere. Here in Wyoming the closest distributor to me that I'm aware of is 250 miles away. Or I can drive there and then pay the well over $20.00lb for the exact same powder

 

[Dewey]

OK I'm Polish and I'm left handed so I'm somewhat handicapped but you need to explain your math because I don't get it. I can order it (i.e. Goex) for $16.20lb in 25lb lots including shipping and hazmat. It comes to my door so I don't have to drive anywhere. Here in Wyoming the closest distributor to me that I'm aware of is 250 miles away. Or I can drive there and then pay the well over $20.00lb for the exact same powder

Forgot to say that your mileage might vary ?

Of course it will depend on the individual's situation, but I was talking about on-line cost being more expensive than having a LOCAL store that sells BP.

If you read the first part of my post (which unfortunately is divided into two posts), you see I order online too, for similar reasons.