Black powder cap and ball pistols

[wvlion]

I would be interested to get everyone's take on the safety of black powder pistols, say the old Army cap and ball black powders. Are they as likely to have accidental multiple chamber firing as I have heard? My family told me that black powder rifles are safe, but they would not recommend the pistols. What are your thoughts? Any particular models that stand out as good quality for new shooters to black powder pistols?

 

[Dave Marsh]

I have never had a chain fire in my Pietta 1858 revolvers. A joy to shoot and totally safe as far as I am concerned. That's my input.

Dave

 

[Greg Blackburn]

Have not had a chain fire in my Colt 1861. I lube the chambers on top of the balls. If I had to carry one for self defense, I would do so.

 

[Coot]

Loose caps and/or poorly fitting (undersized or badly cast with a void) balls are the potential issues with BP revolver chainfires.
Either can create an opening for flame from the cylinder being fired to sneak into an unfired powder charge. If the caps fit properly, they are tight enough to stay in place while firing & thus keep the nipple sealed from flame. Likewise, if the balls are cast without voids & are soft enough to shave off an thin unbroken ring of lead when loaded, that will seal the front of the cylinder. Some shooters add a bit of grease over the loaded balls, some add a filler such as cream of wheat over the powder before loading the balls. Either can be considered an extra seal against flame entry (but the filler is mainly intended to keep the ball near the front of the cylinder when shooting lighter loads). I have shot open top Colts for many years and have never had a chainfire.

 

[TNGhost]

Never had a chain fire myself (own a number and been shooting them for years), and I think the whole issue is over-inflated. I have heard of chain fires and know people who have had them and none have resulted in more than a "scare". So as far as a safety problem I would rank them very low, unless you are sporting one of those turret style revolvers that has chambers pointing back towards the shooter. No repros of them I know of, and they weren't very popular back in the day either, for obvious reasons.

Attention to proper loading procedures and proper maintenance of the nipples and your revolver in general is going to prevent 99% of the possibilities of chain fires, and if you do have one the likely most egregious issue will be a brown stain in your shorts.

Black powder revolvers are every bit as safe as any other modern blackpowder firearm.

As far as which to choose, if you are considering one for self defense, for ease of use, out of the box, I would go with the 1858 Remington copy, new, from either Pietta or Uberti and if I planned any amount of carry I would go with the "Sheriff's" model with the shorter barrel.

If I wanted something more portable/concealable I would opt for the 1863 Remington pocket model. However like arming yourself with a smaller .32 or .22 pistol, you are going to be giving up some power.

In carrying them in general, for safety purposes, many opt to load only five chambers and lower the hammer on an empty chamber. Me I like to load mine the way they did "back then" using all six chambers and resting the hammer in/on the safety pin or notch. This is a real concern as a hammer resting on a live cap can go off if the weapon is dropped as there is no hammer safety as with modern guns. There is no criticism or shame of using the fiver chamber method. It is a matter of whatever works for you and you situation.

There are a number of reasons that the Remingtons are more desirable than the Colts in their modern renditions for such purposes, some we cannot speak of here.

 

[Kansas Jake]

I too have shot cap and ball revolvers for 40 years. In all that time I had one multiple discharge where one extra cylinder fired on a much abused Rogers & Spencer I acquired used. Nothing serious happened beyond my surprise. I don’t know if it was a loose fitting ball or a cap falling off that contributed to it. TNGhost and others have good advice. The only problem is they are addictive and you won’t stop with one.

 

[Phil Coffins]

I bought my first Colt style brass frame revolver in 1973 and have had many others since both Remington and Colt styles. Calibres from 31 to 44 and have yet to have a chain fire. When I started you just figured it out with very little help. So it must be pretty easy to operate one.

 

[lyman54]

The other guys are right on. Like any gun if you know what you're doing and maintain it well they are very safe. And I might add, despite the loading procedure and cleaning are just plain fun.

 

[BullRunBear]

Like the others, I've been shooting cap and ball revolvers for decades without a chain fire. BUT, I've always been diligent about loading, especially the fit of the percussion caps. It also helps that I'm never in a hurry when shooting BP guns. Take my time, be careful, and savor the time at the range.

Jeff

 

[Bad Karma]

I have never had or seen a chain fire and like others, I have been shooting these guns for over 60 years. Yikes! Properly loaded with balls and caps that fit, a revolver in good repair just won’t chain fire.

 

[PastorB]

Been shooting percussion revolvers of every caliber and manufacturer since 1977. Currently own over a dozen, mostly Colt and Remington repros, and have never had a chain fire with any of them, and I shoot them a lot.

 

[mooman76]

I believe I had one but if I did, I didn't know it when it happened. Firing one time when I got to the last chamber is was already empty. I couldn't swear that I missed loading all 6 but I think I did.

 

[SDSmlf]

My family told me that black powder rifles are safe, but they would not recommend the pistols.

What does your family think about driving? Very dangerous with bad brakes and bald tires..... just like cap and ball pistols are dangerous with loose caps and poorly sealed chambers.

 

[RussB]

I bought my first Colt style brass frame revolver in 1973 and have had many others since both Remington and Colt styles. Calibres from 31 to 44 and have yet to have a chain fire. When I started you just figured it out with very little help. So it must be pretty easy to operate one.

I second that thought. Ya learned as ya went along. We simply didn't have the resources we have now to learn from.
Many of us would have given anything to have had all the information so readily at hand as we have today.
Basically there's little to it when ya start out, Powder, add a lightly lubed OP wad, Seat the Ball, nice and tight, and add a cap.
I didn't start using a OP Wad until up in the late 1980's.
I started out using a little dab of grease over the ball, because someone told me that's what you have to do, but I couldn't see that really did anything except make a mess, blowing it everywhere, all over the gun, but little of it when down the barrel. Then I turned to just shoving a ball down with the Loading Lever, getting a nice clean cut ring of lead, and that seemed okay. I did that for several years, but all the subject matter experts kept saying I need that lube in one way or the other, so I started punching and lubing my own wads, and that's where I've stayed.
Now here is the kicker.....if one way is better than the other I am not astute enough to see that difference, insofar as accuracy. I do believe a lubed wad gives another cylinder or two when shooting before I wipe things down.
Years ago Dixie Gun Works printed a lot of good information in the back pages of their Catalog.
One such printing was a copy of an original Colts instructions, and it never mentioned "lube" anywhere on it, except "a light machine oil" for the workings on occasion. But that clean-cut ring of lead from the ball was mentioned.
Ball size is extremely important in this game we play with C&B Revolvers. Whether we cast our own, or buy store-bought, make sure it's at least 0.002 overbore of the cylinder mouth.
If Lard, or Cirsco, or Mutton, makes you feel safer by putting a little dab over the ball when shooting C&B Revolvers......., Do it!
I am 80 years old and have yet to witness "a chain fire"..??
The old-timers I shoot with say this chain fire thingy is something new to them also, and like me, they have been at this game a year or three.
But there is one thing all us old goats believe in strongly, and that is flipping the gun hand to the right to expel the fired cap on every shot. Let gravity take that little piece of spent copper out, instead of you having to dig it out, and creating another jam....

Russ...

 

[Treestalker]

You know you have graduated into C&B shootist when you get caught swiping your wife's cold cream to use for top cylinder lube and she slaps you so hard you wind up face down in the litter box with a mouth full of Special Kitty.

 

[TFoley]

Poor Mike Beliveau [duellist1954 on Youtube] - he gets to shoot his original Colt Navy for the very first time - on camera - and has his first chainfire in over 35 years. Given that he probably shoots a deal more than most of us, and with dozens of different models of cap and ball revolvers, I'd say that just about sums up the likelihood of actually having this happen to you.

Kinda like standing in a cornfield and getting hit on the head by a falling barrel organ - not saying it will NEVER happen - just that it's unlikely.

 

[Many Klatch]

I had a couple of chain fires and that was with grease on top of the ball. I replaced the nipples with stainless steel ones from Track of the Wolf and the problem stopped.

A chain fire is not a big deal. A bit more noise, a bit more recoil and you don't get to fire off all 6 shots.

If you are going to carry it, only load 5. There are a number of cowboys buried on the prairie that were shot with their own gun.

 

[Grenadier1758]

My chain fires were with misshaped and undersized balls. That's when I learned to measure the cylinder mouth to find the cylinder diameter was 0.375" and I needed to find 0.380" balls to get the ring of lead shaved off. No chains fires after that. and that was a long time ago. I learned that when trying to determine the ball size, patch thickness or sight changes, a Vernier caliper (digital calipers just weren't marketed back in the dark ages) and a micrometer were essential tools.

Dark ages: My hair was dark at that time in the past.

 

[Billy Boy]

I would be interested to get everyone's take on the safety of black powder pistols, say the old Army cap and ball black powders. Are they as likely to have accidental multiple chamber firing as I have heard? My family told me that black powder rifles are safe, but they would not recommend the pistols. What are your thoughts? Any particular models that stand out as good quality for new shooters to black powder pistols?

Speaking in general, firearms are not ‘safe’ or ‘unsafe’. Just like skilsaws, the people using them determine if they are safe or not. This forum is the best place to get helpful information. Also the Duelist Utube channel has many vids that show proper, safe loading and handling of percussion revolvers.
I have been shooting them since 1968, still anxiously awaiting my first chain fire...

 

[TNGhost]

If you are going to carry it, only load 5. There are a number of cowboys buried on the prairie that were shot with their own gun.

Why did/do they put safety notches/pins on the back of the cylinder?

I'd argue that when properly used with all 6 chambers loaded, no cowboys were "buried on the prairie". from that practice.

That is the way they were designed to be carried.