Black Powder fouling in 54

[Okie Hog]

I have been experimenting with GOOP WATERLESS HAND CLEANER. I shot 20
Consecutive shots with no wiping saturating my patches (0.020) with this.

Yep, Goop is good patch lube. i use original Go Jo for patch lube on drill cloth patches. At the range the patch is smeared with a coat of Go Jo. Can fire 20 rounds or more without patching the bore.

 

[SOLANCO]

I’ve had a couple guns with bad fouling problems.

My little .32 calibre squirrel rifle, just seems yo foul up after every couple shots.

My .50 calibre Pedersoli Alamo Rifle used to foul real bad...2shots and could not the 3rd ball down the barrel unless you used a mallet.

I took a tight fitting cleaning patch, put some gun oil on it and some valve grinding compound and lapped the barrel.

Fouling issue went away and the gun suddenly decided to shoot 1” groups from the bench at 100 yards.

To me, that says the barrel manufacturer did not finish his job.

 

[SOLANCO]

I too am a new flintlock shooter, bought a pedersoli pennsylvania rifle 2 months ago. First time on the range, i dry pattched the barrel to remove any manufacturing oils, loaded a .490 ball/ .010 patch and fired. On the next reload i couldnt hardle get the ball down so i began swabbing between shots. This kept it going til shot number 8 where the ball stuck 5" from the muzzle while loading. Tried to pull it with a ball puller only to snap it off, ended up having to grease gun the ball out.

I noticed after getting it cleanbthat the barrel appeared to have patches of anticorrosive or some such in it that try as i might i couldnt scrub out. Now with about 50 shots through it, all the factory anticorrosive has been shot out leaving a bright shiny bore that loads easily shot after shot. I am currently running .480" balls with .020" patching on top of 65gr of 3f goex. Getting 2"-3" 5 shot groups offhand at 25 yards.

Chris

Speaks to me of quality control at the barrel manufacturer. Ever buy a new unmentionable rifle and find unidentified stuff in the rifling?

 

[Zonie]

I am not familiar with what “coning a muzzle” means. Can someone provide an explanation? Thanks!

Coning the muzzle means what it sounds like it is saying.
The muzzle in a coned barrel has a very slight cone shape in the bore that removes most of or all of the rifling. The actual bore size starts an inch or two down from the face of the muzzle.
Because this cone exists, it allows the patched ball to be started into the bore using just your thumb pressure rather than using a "short starter" or mallet to start the patched ball into the barrel.
There are some who say coning a barrel will make it lose accuracy. Others say it doesn't harm the barrels accuracy in any way.

Forming or cutting the cone takes special tooling to keep the cone concentric with the bore.

 

[olskool]

mineral oil mixed with alcohol is also really good,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Siringo]

Yep, Goop is good patch lube. i use original Go Jo for patch lube on drill cloth patches. At the range the patch is smeared with a coat of Go Jo. Can fire 20 rounds or more without patching the bore.

Part of the secret in the lube is lanolin.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Just don't use the GOOP or GoJo with pumice as a patch lube unless you are polishing pits from the bore.

 

[TarponStalker]

We all know that every rifle likes and performs best with certain loads. And I know some of you have your favorite patch lube. However I’m starting to think the quantity of patch lube is more important that the brand or type when it comes to multiple shots without swabbing. I’ve never had a rifle that I could shoot more than 2-3 shots before the load couldn’t be pushed down without trouble. Mostly I use a ball that’s .010 less than the bore with a .015-.018 patch.
I've tried a larger ball as I’ve heard it’ll keep fouling cleaner. Didn’t work. I’ve tried many different patch lubes. That doesn’t seem to matter.
I mainly hunt with my guns so when I shoot even in practice I lightly lube the patch.
Is it possible the guys that are able to shoot all day before cleaning are putting more lube in their patch? I sure envy anyone that doesn’t have to swab the bore as often.
Im not too lazy to swab but it’s bad when you shoot from your stand and can barely reload due to such a tight fit.
BTW when I’m target shooting I keep a bottle of rubbing alcohol to swab with. No need for anything fancy. It cleans and dries fast.
Any thoughts ?

 

[oldhunter1954]

Update: Went back to the range today. Used .530 round ball, 0.018 patch lubed with Ballistol & Water. I was able to get 2 or 3 shots before I felt like I needed to swap the barrel. Happy with my results.

 

[oldhunter1954]

Just thought I would share a pic of my Kibler Colonial in 54 caliber. Picture from the gun range today.

 

[nhmoose]

I have a 54 caliber and need to swab the barrel between every shot. Most of the time it takes 2 cleaning patches. I am using 80 grains of GOEX 2F with .530 round ball and 0.018 lubed ticking patch. The time that I did not swap the barrel the ball got stuck about 5 inches in and I had to use a ball puller to get it out. One of the guys at the range yesterday told me that Swiss 2F does not foul the barrel at all ?

He lied

 

[CumberlandRiver]

You can load all day with Hoppes #9 B/P solvent and patch lube, each patch cleans the bore for the next shot.

Some say it is not a good idea to leave a gun loaded for an extended period of time with this patch lube because you might get a rust ring.

This has been my experience. . I bet I shot 30 or 40 rb through an InvestArms. 45 Hawken and never wiped the bore.

 

[Flintandsteel]

Ok, everyone else has given multiple opinions on the topic, here’s mine.
There is not a Kibler, or Rice barrel that won’t shoot lights out, with a .005” undersized ball, and .020” patching with a liquid lube.
Shoot all day with out swabbing.
First 7 rounds out of a brand new Rice barrel.

 

[Flintlock]

Spit works great, but is only to be used if you are going to fire within 2 or 3 minutes.
Ambient air temperature and a warm barrel will evaporate the spit in short order if you wait too long to fire.

Spit patches are fine for thosewho never leave the range. Wish they would stop recomending this.

 

[William Lincoln]

Just for giggles, try some dry patches. Over-lubing increases
fouling. Also, check the uniformity of your projectiles. I do
not think the powder enters into this. You also could try
polishing the bore- but I think the amount of lubricant
remaining in the bore and your projectile's actual size needs
checking.

 

[Flintandsteel]

Paste lubes, and a loose fitting patch/ball cause fouling. A tight combo with liquid lube guarantee clean shooting shot after shot.
Fouling stays soft, and is pushed back down on top of the next charge, and is removed from the barrel on firing.

 

[smoothshooter]

I have a 54 caliber and need to swab the barrel between every shot. Most of the time it takes 2 cleaning patches. I am using 80 grains of GOEX 2F with .530 round ball and 0.018 lubed ticking patch. The time that I did not swap the barrel the ball got stuck about 5 inches in and I had to use a ball puller to get it out. One of the guys at the range yesterday told me that Swiss 2F does not foul the barrel at all ?

The guy at the range is full of it, or his definition of fouling is different than anyone else’s
I know.
Change lube, or use more of it. You should get at least ten shots before needing to clean, and a lot of people get twenty or more ( as do I ). If you are buying your patching material in the fabric department at a store, be sure it is 100% cotton with no man- made fibers in it. It is not unusual for the manufacturers to add polyester or something similar to the fabric to save money, and the synthetic material helps reduce wrinkling, but the tags still say “ 100% Cotton “.
Point being, the synthetics don’t hold lube well. and just don’t even make good patches to wipe the outside of a gun with preservative oil.

 

[French Colonial]

Spit patches are fine for thosewho never leave the range. Wish they would stop recomending this.

Why would we quit recommending something that has worked for decades and continues to work for those of us who use it?

 

[French Colonial]

Furthermore, some have opined that if you spit patch and leave it in the bore for any length of time the patch will dry out. I say prove it.
You have a patch that is wet from anything at the bottom of a long tube that is sealed at one end and it will dry out but I contend that it will be quite awhile, after all the moisture must go somewhere. Try wetting a patch and putting it in a tube sealed at one end in your shop and let me know how many days it takes till its dry, it will not be hours, it will be days.
Oh but the barrel will be hot you say....only if your shooting in which case its not down there very long is it.

And another thing that bugs me, oh your patch is wet from saliva or Mr. Flintlock lube or something wet so your going to contaminate your powder....prove it. Load your favorite load and shoot over a chronograph and then start wetting patches getting them progressively wetter until the velocity falls off. I contend you will have to start poring liquid in the barrel before you see a difference.

These things that people dream up in theories as to why something should not work fall apart in the real world by people who actually use them.

 

[SDSmlf]

Load your favorite load and shoot over a chronograph and then start wetting patches getting them progressively wetter until the velocity falls off.

Not a velocity test, but I have found that leaving a wet patched ball on the powder (12 grains charge) in my 32 caliber guns for longer than 30 minutes will change the sound when I shoot the gun from a bang to a ‘pisst’ (or similar noise). And misses low on the 2” target I regularly center punch with a 6 o’clock hold. For some reason it doesn’t happen when I use a dry hard felt wad between the powder and patched ball, though I don’t have chronograph data. It would be great to see your test description and chronograph data that lead you to your conclusion.