Blood trail follow up

[Billy Boy]

I started to post a question about the lack of a good blood trail in the other thread with my Alabama deer but figured it might be better as a stand alone topic.

I was using my elk hunting load this deer season because I didn't have time to get to the range enough to dial in a PRB load, which I prefer for whitetail deer. So I was using 100gr of 2F Graf's and 380gr REAL. The entry and exit would looked identical, which suggests to me that the bullet just blasted straight through with limited/no expansion. It hit a rib on both sides. I've experienced this no/poor blood trail on one other occasion with a TC Maxi Ball and a similarly hot powder charge (T7).

Has anyone else experienced this? I'm thinking the hot load and conical projectile had 1) too much juice to cause sufficient expansion and "shock on contact" but 2) not enough energy for the type of shock one usually sees with modern rifles. I've just never had this issue with PRB over a more moderate powder charge. The vast majority of the deer I've shot with PRB have been DRT.

Combined with a shot in the upper third of the cavity and I think a poor blood trail is the result.

The original blend of 10 to 1 lead to tin was and is known as Lyman #2 alloy. It is used to resist leading at higher velocities ( above 1200fps) with post ML firearms. My experience is that if you get past 1500 fps with pure lead ML projectiles, those beautiful petals that form up front and stay there to increase frontal dia. just blow off.
Could your velocity be too high?

 

[OldMaineWoodsman]

Great info and experience in this thread. I would add always assume you hit the deer. I have only killed one deer that dropped on the spot. That was a fork-horn up in Maine that I shot with a .30-06. He went down like he was hit over the head with a sledge-hammer. Every one that I killed with a muzzleloader I had to track to some degree. In many cases, there was no blood until a few yards down their path of direction. After you shoot, watch his flight direction for as long as you can. Reload, wait, and then go directly to where the deer was standing when you fired.

Follow slowly and be patient. A big mistake new hunters make is they look for a blood trail like a scene out of a horror movie. More often than not, it is drops of blood here and there until you get closer to where he died. Patience, and don't give up until you are 100% certain that you missed.

 

[Okie Hog]

I have a lot more experience with bow kills than muzzleloaders, but I can tell you a shot above the centerline of the chest will put very little blood on the ground with either one. The chest cavity will generally be full, but there won't be much leakage.

Yes, high chest shots result in the chest cavity filling with blood. The result is usually a scant blood trail or absence of a blood trail. That's the reason i try for high shoulder shots. High shoulder shots interrupt the central nervous system and the deer often bang flops, like this buck did:

 

[jhanna12061983]

Britsmoothy is correct..., you can only count on the damage that is done by the bullet..., and in my experience that often = the diameter of the ball, alone. IF it deforms, that's a bonus.

Bucks, especially if they have been "upset" in the few minutes before they are shot, tend to go far, and even with double holes they may not bleed outside their body. That upper area of the chest is sealed by the diaphragm. A high shot, as mentioned is often the culprit, but adrenaline can give the deer who has a cardio system compromised by a bullet a really good boost before he lays down and passes. I've also found "no blood trail" and when I found the deer and back tracked to learn, I found that there was no blood on the ground, but a whole lot on the bushes where he passed because he was coughing it all up. I was looking down, when it was 2 feet off the ground.

LD

I shot a doe yesterday at 80bl yards with 100 grain powder and power belt the deer didn't appear hit at all she ran relatively slowly like she was Bailey spooked tail up at first then down. I would have been shocked if I missed I didn't find a speck of blood for 50 yards then it was a drop every 5 yards till I recovered the deer 150 yards from where I shot her double lung pass through. Now this is the 3rd deer I killed with a muzzloader only get 1 week a year to use them and been hunting with it 4 years and only have 1 doe tag for my area but the other 2 dropped in there tracks so with this one running and barley bleeding I was shooting up a mountain so entry 2 inch below center chest and exit 3 Inc above center of chest was baffled by lack of blood almost didn't recover deer because I didn't think I hit it I am glad I decided to look another 10 yards for blood and am extremely grateful I didn't shoot the next doe that came in while I was tracking just in case I did find this deer which luckily I did.

 

[appalichian hunter]

Deer are very resilient a high double lung shot the deer will take a while to fill up with blood, if possible watch how the deer acts after the shot if they run with there tail down its a sure observation the deer was hit, also if the deer humps up at the shot is a hit indication, usually the other observation does not always hold true but 85% of the time will tell you if a deer is hit hard they will get low on the get away, not the normal big leap and jumps when running away, with the tail waving bye bye at you, The next thing is go to where the deer was standing at the shot and look for hair on the ground, I have found that white hair is usually a bad shot (think gut area) brown hair high shoulder or back, a mix of white and brown hair low shoulder,fore leg or a bit back ( low rib area) Tip for trailing a deer that does not leave a immediate blood trail get you a spray bottle fill it with peroxide if you seen which way it went and are reasonably sure of a hit go slow in the direction it ran and spray the peroxide on the ground, and pay attention to low under brush such as honey suckle and leaves on the under story (as Dave stated) not all blood trails begin on the ground. A few years ago I shot a big 9 point buck at about 90 yards with a 54 cal mountain rifle he done a left hand turn hopped over a fence and disappeared in some of the natiest ground growth I have ever trailed in went to where it was standing at the shot could not find anything finally found a spot of blood that looked like someone took a sharpie marker and put a dot on the honeysuckle leaf, sit down and waited about 20 mins. Knowing the way he went began the trailing I cut my way through the under growth(honeysuckle, multi floral rose and tops from logged trees,the further I went the more blood I found after about 50 or so yards came to a big log looked like someone threw BUCKET OF BLOOD OVER THE LOG I was an my hands and knees at the time cocked the rifle and eased it over the log there he laid stone cold dead, He now graces my wall.

 

[chorizo]

Not one drop of blood. It lodged under skin between ribs, exit side. I had to search for entry wound. I attribute it to the bullet hitting a leg bone on entry side, absolutely destroying the heart and preventing blood from being pumped out. When hit, she stood on her hind quarters, spun back from where she came from and dropped dead at 20 yards.

Again, not a drop of blood, even at the entry hole.

I thought to myself, "What the hell? Did I scare her to death?"

 

[sheriff john]

Unlike arrows, bullets cause what's best described as a misty fog - entrance and exit, Size of droplets vary, most will be quite tiny., some will be large. It's easy to start at the spot impact occurred and, looking at obvious droplets, suddenly see no more. Guys who hunt in snow know this, but, of course, in snow ...there are ...tracks.

Also ...unless the droplets fall straight down, they will be somewhat tear-drop shaped. The "pointy" end tells the direction the droplet was falling (fat part hits first, pointy end is actually the termination of that droplet's forward motion). May or may not tell the direction the animal is moving, merely the direction the droplet was moving when it hit.

So ..since all old guys carry toilet paper, every so often drop a piece when you're following a blood trail. When you lose that trail, it's easier to go back and pick it up again.

 

[pamtnman]

My own experience with patched round balls has been previously confessed on this site, and so all I will say here is my experience with the .45 in general and even the .54 when it comes to visible blood trails is many years passed before I began to understand PRB dynamics. Probably close to 100% of my round balls were fatal hits over many years, but the kind of evidence of that fatal hit that I was looking for was almost always lacking where I expected it. So now after I shoot I spend my time trying to piece together everything that happened after my shot: What the deer did immediately after, where it ran, tail up or down, any crash-and-burn sounds etc. I envy muzzleloader hunters who get DRT hunts or nice blood trails. Not my usual experience.

 

[New bp shooter]

I had posted this on another thread... But I was out deer hunting 2 years ago on a foggy morning as a fog slowly started to lift I seen the deer coming to my right it was a doe it was about 45 yards away... I took aim fire the shot felt good and I was almost positive I had hit it ....but due to the fog and the thick cloud of smoke that come out the barrel I didn't see which way the deer went ...it could only went straight away or to my right cuz that's the way the smoke was pushing... and I couldn't see it... When I got down and walked to where the deer was standing I only found a patch of leaves that were turned up where it took off from the shot... never any hair never any blood nothing and I'd always wondered ...I believe that the shot hit that deer but had no sign of any direction... And also because of the smoke I didn't see the reaction of the deer... I am newer to black powder hunting and always wondered what I could do to make a better blood trail..

 

[chorizo]

I am newer to black powder hunting and always wondered what I could do to make a better blood trail..

The only recommendation that comes to mind is make sure the bullet exits and leaves a wound that will leak blood. Typically entry wounds don't leak much blood.

Note the underline!