blunderbuss use in the colonies

[Zoar]

ahhh, here it is:

----General George Washington wrote to the Board of War on April 4, 1779, stating: "It appears to me that Light Blunderbusses on account of the quantity of shot they will carry, will be preferable to Carbines, for Dragoons, as the Carbines only carry a single ball especially in case of close action." ------

 

[colmoultrie]

Of course, many of those who stayed in Boston didn't do so because they refused to give up their arms, but rather because they were Loyalists, and many of them fled Boston in early 1776, when the British evacuated the city. thomas Hutchinson, the Royal Governor, was the most prominent example.

Not everyone who stayed was a Loyalist by any means, but there were a good number.

By the way, do you happen to have the citation for those figures? Might come in handy if I ever again need to debate someone who believes a liar like Michael Bellisiles (of Arming America shame).

Btw., Pete D. mentioned a very short blunderbuss with a wide bell mouth. These were generally called dags, as I understand it, and they were popular in Eastern Europe. The wide bell didn't help spread the shot at all, but it certainly had a psychological effect, as well as being useful in loading!

 

[Zoar]

Here is a lead on getting that information:
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Blunderbuss

And yes I hear you about the Loyalists and that that was the predominant colonists who 'stayed in Boston and did NOT give up their arms'... many contemporary people do not realize how few "Americans" actually fought against the Brits in the American Revolution. Arguably most sat it out either claiming neutrality or being outright on the side of the Brits or some other allegiance other than to fighting against Britain.

 

[Darkgael]

Here's a photo of the picture in Forman's monograph, page 25.
The gun is 14 1/2" overall with a 6 3/4" barrel.

Pete

 

[goon]

According to John Adams it was about 1/3 each Patriot, Loyalist, and Neutral. John Shy puts it at something like 20% Loyalist, but that is still a lot if they're heavily concentrated.
Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

And whoever said you have a 4 bore Blunderbuss, can you please post a pic?

 

[Zoar]

Lordy, I hope I did this right---

4 bore.

Oh and I mis-typed up there. The bore size is actually 1.052" in diameter. Of course, with the flare, the muzzle opening is closer to 2". Those round balls you see are a QUARTER POUND EACH!
hahahahahaaaaaa!

 

[Zoar]

So you can see the muzzle. This photo was taken before I was finished and the barrel was not pinned in tight yet.

 

[Zoar]

Although I prefer this style OVER the modern bowl flare that I have on my 4 bore.

But getting one of these made in 4 bore would cost a small fortune.

 

[Zoar]

goon---Population of the colonies in the time of the revolution was a tad over 2 million ( http://merrill.olm.net/mdocs/pop/colonies/colonies.htm ) that counts the kids and ancients too, so lets say 1.2 Million adults of an age who could participate in the cause/and or actually fight. So ONE THIRD OF THAT number... That roughly equates to 400 thousand who were Revolutionaries or sympathetic to the cause. Alot of those were women (51%)! and while a couple of women were involved in the cause, most women certainly did NOT, so that would mean about 200 thousand male Colonists who did participate in the cause. A really small number of the total population. Especially when they had an equal number of Colonists (not counting british) who OPPOSED their cause and another equal amount that by their insistence on remaining neutral in effect hurt them to some degree.

It was an uphill battle. Both ways. No wonder it took so long and was so bleak for many of those years. But, wouldn't it be fascinating to find some historical evidence where the BLUNDERBUSS had a turning-the-tide impact??? hahaha

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Although I prefer this style OVER the modern bowl flare that I have on my 4 bore.

Your 4 bore muzzle is not a modern design. Goes back farther than the design of your English blunderbuss. :thumbsup:

 

[goon]

goon---Population of the colonies in the time of the revolution was a tad over 2 million ( http://merrill.olm.net/mdocs/pop/colonies/colonies.htm ) that counts the kids and ancients too, so lets say 1.2 Million adults of an age who could participate in the cause/and or actually fight. So ONE THIRD OF THAT number... That roughly equates to 400 thousand who were Revolutionaries or sympathetic to the cause. Alot of those were women (51%)! and while a couple of women were involved in the cause, most women certainly did NOT, so that would mean about 200 thousand male Colonists who did participate in the cause. A really small number of the total population. Especially when they had an equal number of Colonists (not counting british) who OPPOSED their cause and another equal amount that by their insistence on remaining neutral in effect hurt them to some degree.

It was an uphill battle. Both ways. No wonder it took so long and was so bleak for many of those years. But, wouldn't it be fascinating to find some historical evidence where the BLUNDERBUSS had a turning-the-tide impact??? hahaha

Yep but it's also not just a numbers game. It's important to remember that different regions were largely dominated by either patriots or loyalists and that many times having sympathies for one side or the other couldn't be translated into action if you were surrounded by "the enemy". But I don't want to sidetrack the thread - because it is too fascinating.
A gun throwing a quarter of a pound of lead! Dangerous on both ends I bet!

And now... back to studying for finals. Definitely not as fun of a way to approach history as you guys have exposed me to.

And thank you for the pic. Utterly cool on so many levels!
I really could spend so much money on muzzzleloaders... and a 10 gauge blunderbuss is on my wishlist, somewhere behind a couple pistols and a fowler and maybe a smooth rifle.

 

[Jckrabbit]

A friend of mine, from Massachuetts with direct ties to the first settlers from the Mayflower, has a blunderbuss that has been handed down thru the family. It is a rugged little dude! It has a very short buttstock like the one in the picture that was recently posted, but the barrel is longer, about 16-18 inches. The barrel is also made of brass. I'm sure it has not been shot in long time, possibly centuries, but I have no doubt that a fresh flint and some powder could change that quickly. This gun may well have been in the Boston area during the Revelution.He has made some noise about wanting to sell it, any idea who he could talk with about its value?? I've suggested the Track of the Wolf, but thought there might be a better source of info.

The blunderbuss would an awesome short range weapon for sure.

Jckrabbit

 

[Stophel]

If you rode "shotgun" on a coach, you might have had a blunderbuss (or if you were a highwayman...). Sailors would have them (from the ship's armory), and minor usage by the army. For the most part, for ordinary folks, they were just about useless. They were not good for hunting, and a pistol was obviously much more compact and handy as a home or store defense item.

 

[goon]

I could definitely see the utility for close range shipboard fighting. I was watching "Deadliest Warrior" one day last week and they were examining pirate weapons. The blunderbuss spread pretty much across the entire torso at maybe 10 yards (at least that's what it looked like on the show, but it might have been closer). Much farther away and the pattern would have only partially hit the target, which means the rest of the pattern would have hit someone else!

 

[Zoar]

They were referred to as "stairwell guns", as well. Anyone coming up the stairs would be minced meat. Clear out an entire stairwell full of attackers.

Sailors found a lot of utility for the Blunderbuss. For boarding a ship it was unmatched. Anyone not hiding behind something on deck could get wounded if not killed by a single blast.

Stagecoach protection. When shooting at one to several highwaymen on galloping horses chasing the coach nothing was better than a blunderbuss. Well, one thing was a better: a second blunderbuss. I read that stagecoach "guards" often had two loaded blunderbuss when heading toward bandit/highwaymen country.

 

[Darkgael]

I am reading here about the "spread" that BBs provide when fired - or supposedly provide. I have also read that the bell on a BB does not affect the pattern at all and that the shot pattern spreads just like any other Cylinder bored shotgun - at about two inches a yard. Take a standard ML SG with Cyl bores and pattern it at ten yards and you should have about a 20" pattern. That gun, however, would be a whole lot harder to reload than a BB during a shipboard battle or on a bench on a rocking stagecoach.

That size pattern has been my own experience when patterning my BB - about 20 inches at 10 yards. On a stairwell - it'd be a lot smaller than that. Of course, that situation may have had way more than the 1 1/4oz of shot that I use.
Pete

 

[Zoar]

Pete--Indeed. Figure a minimum of 4 OUNCES of shot. And while I have not carefully patterned my 4 bore Blunderbuss yet, I will say from shooting it at 4 by 5 foot sheets of plywood and assessing the approx pattern it is MUCH larger than any of my shotguns even cylinder bores. I would say at 10 yards it is approx 5-7 feet diameter (not even close to 20 inches). This gun would clear a stairwell. And if that is what I intended to do I would load it up with a range of shot, the biggest about .30 round ball and go down to #6 with the about a third of the load being BB shot. And a lot more than 4 ounces total as well, more like 6 ounces. The Blunderbuss can handle it.

While the flare of the "ThunderGun" supposedly does not make the pattern wider I can say from actual experience shooting this 4 bore that it has a very wide pattern, wider than you'll find in books.

 

[Zoar]

This article appears to be an interesting read. I skimmed it then jumped to the patterning charts.
http://asoac.org/bulletins/96_flanigan_blunderbusses.pdf

It does show 4 gauge giving up to a 57 inch diameter pattern at 10 yards. Most at 38 inches diameter or there about, so say over a 3 foot pattern at 10 yards. But from my playing around I know I had quite a number of hits farther out than 3 feet.

Some day I do intend to load my 4 bore up with about six ounces of #12 shot over 130 grains of black powder and see what it does to a sheet of thin plywood at 15-20 feet. I bet it makes a gargantuan hole! I did load up mine with four ounces of #6 shot and made a hole you could drive a blowing ball through at 10 feet in a piece of plywood. Moreover, I found that packing the shot in a paper sack and putting a 1/2 thick cardboad wad under it and two over shot cards OVER it resulted in tighter patterning. If I wanted to make a maximum spread I just put an overshot card UNDER the pellets loosely loaded (no paper sack) and just one over it and lightly dampened the last one down to hold the load of shot in.

 

[Zoar]

In addition to being used by the cavalry (British and US), the Blunderbuss was employed for other duties in which the shotgun-like qualities were desirable, such as for guarding prisoners or defending a mail coach... A mail coach or post coach was a horse-drawn carriage that carried mail deliveries. The coach was usually drawn by four horses and had seating for four passengers inside.

A typical mail coach would have a single postal employee on board to guard the mail from Highwayman. A Highwayman was a robber who preyed on travelers, particularly one who traveled by horse; those who robbed on foot were called Footpads. Mounted robbers were widely considered to be socially superior to Footpads...

The postal employee on the mail coach was usually armed with a Blunderbuss and a pair of pistols. The Blunderbuss they often used were 11 gauge down to 4 gauge with about a 17 inches long barrel, flaring to 2 inches at the muzzle; it was also provided with a spring-loaded bayonet.
The bayonet effectively turning the gun into a spear. It was a close quarter battle combat or last-resort weapon.

If I was a mail coach employee I think I would opt for two blunderbuss and two pistols.

 

[Captain outwater]

I had the priviledge of actually inspecting some of the blunderbusses held at Princeton battlefield. Most were at least 1 inch bore, some larger. The bell mouths were not extremely large. Most also had tapered bores...large at the mouth, reducing as they went in to the touch hole.
I imagine they used a heavy shot load, but not a heavy powder load...it is a short range weapon after all. Shot sizes were not standardized then...they had small shot, swan shot, large shot, rifle ball and musket ball, and grape shot...grape shot being the largest and used in cannon, and made of iron.
I have seen large brass buttons that had been hit by shot...holes from small to 1/4 inch had gone thru it front to back....must have hurt!