Boiled leather for sheaths

[LaBonte]

Further to the tacked sheaths. I had a look around my pile today and found some brass tacks of the type used for canoe building. I tried it Chuck's(if I may be so bold?) way and it worked great. I only tried it in two pieces of 10oz veg tanned so I could see that it would work even better in reasonably thick rawhide.

You would not believe how long I've wondered about this. I feel that getting this question answered is a real bonus to hanging out in this camp, along with all the other great stuff.

Wick and Chuck, I note youse fellers are talking about doing the boiled thing with damp water and mild heat, but if you haven't tried it with bee's wax it might be worth a go because it really does make amazingly hard leather plus it is almost as water-proof as glass.

No need to be bold - Chuck is my given name after all.....

I have used wax to waterproof with, but I dip the piece like the Romans and others did, and only use it for heavier leather goods and only after doing the cuir bouilli treatment with water and heat - for thinner pieces like sheaths that higher heat can be detrimental plus there's really no need to go over 170°F max since the leather changes on the molecular level at 160° .
While I use some beeswax in making my own dubbin I don't like to use a lot of wax of any kind on leather goods, since wax no matter what is a dust/dirt magnet - seen far too many pieces when doing repair work that were WAY over waxed and/or oiled - folks for some reason seem to "love" their leather to death .

 

[shortbow]

Thanks Chuck, me called James.

Anyhow, that's interesting what you say about the magnet thing, because perhaps I've just been lucky, but when I do it I get a real hard, smooth and dry finish. Perhaps its because I don't dip and hence don't take on as much wax? I'll have to keep this all in mind and pay close attention next time I'm doing it.

Also, I may have overstated the heat thing because although I've always in the past warmed the oven to 250, I put the leather in there on a piece of newsprint to soak up the drippings just after first turning the oven off and then I leave the door open. When I first started out I did cook some leather and ended up with a very brittle and easily broken product. After experimenting, I ended up with my current recipe.

One thing that article you linked showed is that there are many ways of doing this thing.

Really looking fwd to trying it with a centre seam sheath.

 

[tg]

I have never boiled any leather for sheaths I just get it wet and shring fit it, I do add a heat lamp to hasten the process I have used heat also to shrink rawhide over a dome of sand(coals in the sand) to make shields, I think most leathers if wet will shrink enough if dried with a bit of heat to be snug if that is the goal, there are some top notch leather workers, sheath makers here who know much more than I do and will probably offer guidence on this matter.

 

[LRB]

Well, I have a center seam sheath in the oven as I type. Temp is averaging 175°. I have to occasinally open the door a bit to keep it regulated. Sheath went in damp, not wet. So far time is running into a couple of hours. I took it out a while ago thinking it was dry, but it left water drops on my blade, so it's back in for a bit more cooking. So far, it is getting quite hard with very slight shrinkage. Just enough that I can tell by inserting the knife.

 

[LRB]

Took the sheath out of the oven about 30 minutes ago. It is hard enough to act as a spring, and bounces off my wood kitchen table like it was hard plastic. No damage to the leather. No brittleness. Minimal shrinkage, but the knife has to be forced in and out. I will be giving it some oil after while. Ovens temps did reach 200° a few times, but I would think averaged about 175°, as the temp also fell to 150° a few times. My gas range control is very hard to regulate at the very low temps. I think I am impressed somewhat, but not totally convinced of the need when I consider the probably 200 or more of these CS sheaths I have made with no complaints or comebacks, over a span of years. I wore one myself for around 3 years, then gave it and the 8" belt knife it secured, to a friend about 7 or 8 years ago, and he is still using it without any problems. I will not say a problem could not arise with an unhardened sheath, but only that it hasn't to my knowledge, happened yet. I don't think I could offer the cuir bollie as a standard, but more likely as an option, due to the increased time involved, but we will see.

 

[Ken Cormier]

Wow this was quite informitve . And I was thinking throw it in the pan acouple min put knife in let dry. Just goes to show what happens when I git to thinkin

 

[crockett]

Thanks about the technique- one reason I didn't boiled the works was an aversion to putting the knife/pistol in boiling water.
I've done the oven drying several times- one time I just put the sheath on the grate- bad idea because I got hash marks on the back- now I use a flat pan, etc.

 

[LRB]

I just laid the sheath on a magazine on the grate. At that low of temp fire hazard is nearly non-existant. I left the knife in the sheath over night, and it now goes in and out much easier, and I can tell little difference in the fit as compared to my regular sheaths. If this is "cuir boluilli", it is pretty easy to do. Just takes time and a little care in preparation. By the way Crockett. I wet molded the sheath the day before,with spring water, and let it dry. Then re-wet it until damp. Gave it time to become damp all the way through. Then let dry to just a clammy damp. Then cooked it.

 

[BillinOregon]

Spring water, eh Wick?

 

[LRB]

That's all I had on hand. Most often if I use water for wetting leather, I use distilled. We live on the St. Johns river, and do not have drinking water on tap. We get spring water from friends in the neighboring community for drinking and cooking.

 

[crockett]

Thanks Wick

 

[lonehunter]

That's all I had on hand. Most often if I use water for wetting leather, I use distilled. We live on the St. Johns river, and do not have drinking water on tap. We get spring water from friends in the neighboring community for drinking and cooking.

Has a 9-10 ft Gator that hangs out by his front door, Ticks by the millions, And it takes sunlight an extra half hour to get to him.
Swamp People! :shake:

 

[LRB]

We used to hold tick races on Sundays, but we had stop that. Lonehunter keeps running off with all of them. :idunno: :rotf:

 

[lonehunter]

Only the winners! :wink:

So! Did the new method change or alter anything other than make the sheath leather harder?

 

[LRB]

Not that I can tell. only that it was a little relunctant to take oil, but it did take it.

 

[naysmyth]

I don't know if anyone suggested , heat the leather just warm enough to melt beeswax then the rub wax on then repeat until leather will not soak up any more wax remember heat only warm enough to melt the wax not hot enough to cause wax to smoke
Dave