Boot Knives At An Event.

[blackhorse]

:blah: :blah: :blah: Carrying weapons "unhistorically" or pointing weapons at each other. Anyone that lets another person point a weapon at them for fun is a moron. And I retract my statement about banning mock battles. My mistake, we need to cull the less bright from the herd...

 

[tg]

Looks like ya just need to find another sandbox to play in rather than put down the game the other kids are playing if it does not suit ya...
I did not hear any of them ask anyone if their game was acceptable to any spectators :idunno:

 

[Claude Mathis]

Looks like ya just need to find another sandbox to play in rather than put down the game the other kids are playing if it does not suit ya...
I did not hear any of them ask anyone if their game was acceptable to any spectators :idunno:

Exactly. No one is forced to participate. :thumbsup:

 

[Tumblernotch]

Strange how something that follows the result of just ones negligence, can dictate the future outcome for the entire hobby.

When I started CW re-enacting in the early 70's we fixed bayonets and up into the mid 80's kept our ramrods on our muskets and rammed charges. It only took a couple of guys getting stuck and a few getting hit with flying rammers to thoroughly screw up the whole scene. And we aimed at the opposing troops unless we were closer than about 60 yards. Before I retired in '94, the safety precautions, though unfortunately necessary because of all the green nimrods and cowboys joining the ranks, were getting so strict that the battles were so fake looking that the spectators were even commenting. Battle lines firing volleys looked like graveside salutes.

By the way, as far as wearing knives, whether in the boot or the belt or wherever, would pretty much only correct in an early war scenario. By 1862, most soldiers had figured out that a big D guard knife or a revolver was pretty much useless as an infantry weapon and the added weight was not worth the trouble. In fact, even General Lee made a comment about it. Most knives carried were pocket knives or small dirks. Many of the big ferocious knives seen in portraits were studio props to begin with. When we did events that involved a lot of marching over long distances such as tacticals, we even ditched our bayonets to cut down on weight and having them bang around. Like the original soldiers, we learned early that all they were good for were as candlesticks.

 

[blackhorse]

HMMMMM, bayonets sticking guys and ram rods as projectiles. Things that make you go hmmmmm...

 

[Tumblernotch]

Before you go to calling re-enactors stupid or something, keep in mind that in most cases any hand to hand fighting was choreographed. No one wanted to hurt or get hurt even if it wasn't rehearsed. Considering the thousands upon thousands of re-enactors who have been in the hobby since the 1960's, there have been remarkably few injuries. Most injuries have been due to overweight and older soldiers who went down with heat strokes or heart attacks. I don't have any statistics at hand (and there probably hasn't been any worked up anyway), but from 20 years in the field from 1974 to 1994 at the peak of the hobby I never saw anyone killed and very few injured and most of those, besides the above mentioned heat and heart problems, were guys who got cut or banged up by their own weapons or singed by a cooked off load when shooting a hot dirty musket. Many mishaps occurred in camp. As for fired ramrods, those were few and far between. As in the real battles, during the excitement of battle when the firing was fast, occasionally someone would forget to remove a ramrod and fire it. I know of a few cases where guys were struck in the arm or had one land near them. It was rare, but it only took one or two cases to have a rule that though ramrods could be kept in the muskets, we couldn't draw them in the field except for during inspection prior to battle. Later the NPS ruled that they had to be left in camp and most other events followed suit.

And like I said before, we aimed at the enemy. We knew we were shooting blanks and so did they. To duck hunt when firing at an enemy line takes any sense of realism from it. And when at close range we either aimed just over the line or we didn't fire at all and just charged. That depended on the scenario or our commanders.

The only major injuries were loss of hand and arms when a load in a field piece would cook off when being rammed. This was pretty rare but did unfortunately happen. And a few cavalrymen broke some legs, arms and backs getting knocked off a horse. I do know of one infantryman in our unit who lost part of a hand due to an original Austrian rifle blowing up, but that didn't happen at an event.

I spent 10 years of my hobby as a sharpshooter. Many times I tracked officers with a scoped Whitworth and fired at them. I told one once that I had him in my scope for quite awhile at about 500 yds. and when he saw what I was armed with he said that he was awful glad we were just playing. But other than that he was fine with it. I've looked down the barrels of many muskets aimed directly at me and it never bothered me. My only concern was if it was at very close range. This only happened in very dense woods and as soon as we saw that we were too close, we held fire or elevated our pieces. We trusted our fellow re-enactors. Maybe they can't now.

I've been in scores of battles ranging from squad sized events all the way to the 125th Annv. of Gettysburg with 15,000 troops and I felt safer doing what we were doing than if I was in a sandlot football game. The only time I ever got scared was marching over the top of South Mountain in a column of fours in a severe thunderstorm. We were one giant lightning rod until we were able to scatter and ground our arms. Considering the numbers of largely untrained men with guns turned loose for a weekend, I'd say that re-enacting ranks quite favorably with any other outdoor sport or hobby in the world as far as safety is concerned. I'm sure that there are a few malicious individuals out there in the ranks and of course those who can't or won't learn how to do this safely. But it's up to their comrades and commanders to either discipline or get rid of them.

And by the way, after I posted the above, I went back and re-read an earlier post of yours. Seems that I'm a moron who needs to be culled from the herd. Thankfully, somehow I've survived all these years. And you live far enough away to be safe from getting your ears boxed. The above information was for you, but I'm redirecting it to the others to read since you wouldn't want to read something a moron wrote. Just remember not to poop in someone else's sand box.

Claude, I'm sorry if I went over the line a little and got off topic. I couldn't let such remarks go unanswered.

 

[Dispatch]

Before you go to calling re-enactors stupid or something, keep in mind that in most cases any hand to hand fighting was choreographed. No one wanted to hurt or get hurt even if it wasn't rehearsed. Considering the thousands upon thousands of re-enactors who have been in the hobby since the 1960's, there have been remarkably few injuries. Most injuries have been due to overweight and older soldiers who went down with heat strokes or heart attacks. I don't have any statistics at hand (and there probably hasn't been any worked up anyway), but from 20 years in the field from 1974 to 1994 at the peak of the hobby I never saw anyone killed and very few injured and most of those, besides the above mentioned heat and heart problems, were guys who got cut or banged up by their own weapons or singed by a cooked off load when shooting a hot dirty musket. Many mishaps occurred in camp. As for fired ramrods, those were few and far between. As in the real battles, during the excitement of battle when the firing was fast, occasionally someone would forget to remove a ramrod and fire it. I know of a few cases where guys were struck in the arm or had one land near them. It was rare, but it only took one or two cases to have a rule that though ramrods could be kept in the muskets, we couldn't draw them in the field except for during inspection prior to battle. Later the NPS ruled that they had to be left in camp and most other events followed suit.

And like I said before, we aimed at the enemy. We knew we were shooting blanks and so did they. To duck hunt when firing at an enemy line takes any sense of realism from it. And when at close range we either aimed just over the line or we didn't fire at all and just charged. That depended on the scenario or our commanders.

The only major injuries were loss of hand and arms when a load in a field piece would cook off when being rammed. This was pretty rare but did unfortunately happen. And a few cavalrymen broke some legs, arms and backs getting knocked off a horse. I do know of one infantryman in our unit who lost part of a hand due to an original Austrian rifle blowing up, but that didn't happen at an event.

I spent 10 years of my hobby as a sharpshooter. Many times I tracked officers with a scoped Whitworth and fired at them. I told one once that I had him in my scope for quite awhile at about 500 yds. and when he saw what I was armed with he said that he was awful glad we were just playing. But other than that he was fine with it. I've looked down the barrels of many muskets aimed directly at me and it never bothered me. My only concern was if it was at very close range. This only happened in very dense woods and as soon as we saw that we were too close, we held fire or elevated our pieces. We trusted our fellow re-enactors. Maybe they can't now.

I've been in scores of battles ranging from squad sized events all the way to the 125th Annv. of Gettysburg with 15,000 troops and I felt safer doing what we were doing than if I was in a sandlot football game. The only time I ever got scared was marching over the top of South Mountain in a column of fours in a severe thunderstorm. We were one giant lightning rod until we were able to scatter and ground our arms. Considering the numbers of largely untrained men with guns turned loose for a weekend, I'd say that re-enacting ranks quite favorably with any other outdoor sport or hobby in the world as far as safety is concerned. I'm sure that there are a few malicious individuals out there in the ranks and of course those who can't or won't learn how to do this safely. But it's up to their comrades and commanders to either discipline or get rid of them.

And by the way, after I posted the above, I went back and re-read an earlier post of yours. Seems that I'm a moron who needs to be culled from the herd. Thankfully, somehow I've survived all these years. And you live far enough away to be safe from getting your ears boxed. The above information was for you, but I'm redirecting it to the others to read since you wouldn't want to read something a moron wrote. Just remember not to poop in someone else's sand box.

Claude, I'm sorry if I went over the line a little and got off topic. I couldn't let such remarks go unanswered.

Don't sweat the low lifes. Its obvious the guys off his meds: :youcrazy:. Nothing you can say or do will make a nut job understand common sense. This is our hobby, nobody pays our way, you do so screm'em! :wink: All we can do is shun the bast---! But 'I' hear yea brother, see yea on the field! :thumbsup:

 

Statistically, more people die from hospital mistakes, or from slipping in the bath tub, than are injured reenacting. I wouldn't give the naysayers any attention.

 

[Tumblernotch]

Aww, I know the type. It's no big deal. Just wanted to let him know his ignorance didn't slip by undetected. It is something to think about. We've been taught for years not to point a gun at anything we didn't want to destroy, yet thousands have gone out and done it for years with half the load in. But as I said before we could trust the people we worked with to be as safe as possible and it paid off. I had fun and never was injured except for the usual cuts and bruises you get when you play rough. Heat got me down a couple of times. I met my wife doing that and we will have been married 25 years this October. I haven't drawn trigger since 1994 so I'm afraid you won't be seeing me out. I did sutler for a year selling ironwork. I still have all my gear; it's a shame it shrunk a lot.

And Jack, you're right. I'd also say more people have been killed or injured driving to and from events than what got seriously injured while re-enacting. And I have to say we've drifted far from the original topic. I say that if a guy wants to wear a knife in his boot, have at it. That is, if the knife and the boot fit the period and theatre of war and it's OK with the ones what are in charge.
:thumbsup:

You fellers have a good'un!

 

[blackhorse]

All I said was "things that make you go HMMMMM"..Apparently you know it is foolish to point firearms and pointy things at others. Otherwise you would not have gone off and written such a extensive reply. You can defend your foolish actions all you want, just as I can have an opinion. I've been in this hobby for 17 years and have met people all over the country. I used to think that I would defend peoples rights to own firearms even though their IQ was smaller than their shoe size but I need to rethink that stance. My American rights are being whittled away due to the stupid actions of others...

AND, that was a cute threat,, "box your ears". What the hell, making threats on a site like this/// BWAHAHAHAHA... And the "being off his meds" how quaint. People do not point firearms at me !!!!!