Bore Too Tight?

[El Toro]

I gave my 20 year old son a Pedersoli/Cabelas .50 caliber Blue Ridge rifle for Christmas. We got out to the range to test fire it this morning. Had a problem ramming a patched ball even with a starter. Had to fire unpatched. Need to know if there is a break-in for new barrels or whats is going on.

We are using Hornady .490 RB, 70gr Grafs FFFg and spit/saliva on some T/C un-lubed patches. The T/C patches don't say what thickness they are but state they are for .45-.50 caliber. We don't have a range-rod so using a starter and the hickory rod that came with the gun was our only option. I didn't want to get a ball stuck only 10-15 inches down the barrel so we opted to fire unpatched balls.

When I got home I mic'ed the balls and see they vary in diameter but average about .493 so they were oversized. My son did have one ball drop down the bore about 6 inches. I mic'ed a few that were .487 but were irregular.

Mechanically everything worked beautifully on the rifle. We had a blast, but eventually there was some fouling build-up making each shot a bit harder to ram.

Suggestions or ideas are appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Black Hand]

Smaller ball or a thinner patch...

 

[hanshi]

:thumbsup:

 

[Zonie]

The problem may well be the patch thickness.

A number of years ago I got a "super good deal" on several packages of unlubricated TC patches. No thickness was shown on the package but I bought them anyway.

They turned out to be VERY thick, although I never bothered to measure the thickness but, I eventually tossed them in the trash.

Try looking for unlubricated patches that are about .015-.018 thick.

If you have a store that sells cloth, you might want to check them out.
Look for cloth that has a tight weave, is 100% pure cotton and seems to be fairly thick and give it a try.

You'll want to cut the cloth into squares that measure about 1 5/16" X 1 5/16". The size isn't too fussy so just get it close to that and it will work fine.

One yard of cloth will easily be enough for over 800 patches.

As for the fouling, that's normal.

Take a cleaning jag and some soft, thin cloth with you the next time you want to shoot your rifle.
Old undies or T shirts work fine.

When fouling first starts to be a problem, cut a piece of cloth about the same size as the patches I mentioned above.
Dampen them with water. Not dripping wet but slightly wet, like a piece of material that was dripping wet but was wrung out to get rid of the excess.

Put your jag on the ramrod or a cleaning rod and run the damp patch down the bore to the breech.

Let it sit there for 15-20 seconds to allow the powder on the bore to soften and then slowly pull the jag/patch back out of the bore.

It will bring out 80-90 percent of the fouling and make loading the next shot easy.

Do not use the patch if it is dripping. Too much water will foul the next powder load.

Do not pump the patch up and down the bore.
Pumping up and down will knock off the fouling and it will end up in the breech where it can do great mischief.

If your really fussy, you can run a dry patch down the bore to dry it but don't be surprised if it becomes stuck.
If it does become stuck, pour about a teaspoon of water down the bore and give it 15-30 seconds to soak into the material.
After doing this the patch will usually pull right out easy as pie.
Of course, now you have a wet bore again. :rotf:

 

[El Toro]

Thanks Jim,

I mic'ed the patches and they are about .015 average using a Harbor Freight digital micrometer. I'm guessing that I just need thinner patches or try some .480 balls.

I would hate to order an odd ball :youcrazy: because I have a vintage Hatfield in .50 caliber and I have no problems loading the .490 RB with those T/C patches.

We cleaned up both guns real well after shooting. Thanks again! :thumbsup:

 

[varsity07840]

Thanks Jim,

I mic'ed the patches and they are about .015 average using a Harbor Freight digital micrometer. I'm guessing that I just need thinner patches or try some .480 balls.

I would hate to order an odd ball :youcrazy: because I have a vintage Hatfield in .50 caliber and I have no problems loading the .490 RB with those T/C patches.

We cleaned up both guns real well after shooting. Thanks again! :thumbsup:

You may have a problem getting .480 RBs. I'd advise using a better lube, perhaps mink oil which is pretty slick and
does well in cold temps. If you bore has an even number of lands, measure it land to land to give you an idea of what you're dealing with. You may have to try .012 or .010 patches.

 

[El Toro]

It is hard to measure inside the bore without falling off the lands. Mic'ed land-to-land the Pedersoli is approximately .493-.496 with 8 lands total. I again used a digital micrometer to make the measurement so it may not be 100% accurate.

My Hatfield measures approximately .496-.498 land-to-land with 8 lands total.

I would also say that the valley depths 'look' the same but I could not effectively measure land-height.

 

[don hepler]

Get a range rod. Forcing a wooden rod, can get you hurt, if it breaks, while you're leaning on it. Also, I would be afraid of just an unpatched ball. If it moved off the charge and down the barrel, just a few inches, you could get seriously hurt.

Thinner, lubed patch, and range rod should take care of the problem.

I've had a broken rod slide up my arm, lucky for me, it didn't enter the skin. I've even broken an aluminum rod, and that thing was a jagged mess. Even worse I had a turkey flopping on the ground and most of the ram rod was stuck in the barrel. Lucky for me, the turkey, did not get up.

I'll go ahead and share this story, because it happened by trying to shove a tight patched ball down the bore. I shot the turkey, being a short guy, I stood on a log to get more leverage to shove the ball down the bore, meanwhile, the turkey is flopping all over the place, and I slipped off the log....well you get the picture....the rod broke.

 

[SgtErv]

On one of my rifles I had a heck of a time loading, which made me nervous. I went with an overly lubed .018 patch with mink oil tallow. It's more lube than the going consensus is for a proper amount, but I can load much more easily, and with a hickory rod. Thinner patches wouldn't work because of deep rifling and as well as getting burned through.

Long story short, after a lot of experimentation that's what worked and I'm getting pretty darn good accuracy.

I tried spit with this rifle and it just didn't work - sounds like the exact same scenario you described, in fact.

 

[mooman76]

It probably will loosen up some after broke in but I don't think much. You could lap the barrel some to make it smoother and the patches may slide easier but I'd try some thinner patches. If you go with some smaller balls, you just need to keep them separate somehow and mark the container. I have so many calibers I keep my RBs in a tackle box and put a card in each compartment stating the size. I have most calibers 32 - 58. including revolvers. A good way to measure you bore is to have a heavy short rod wrapped in tape down your bore. Tap a slightly oversized bare ball down the bore. Then use the weight of the rod to drive back out the ball.

 

[El Toro]

...A good way to measure you bore is to have a heavy short rod wrapped in tape down your bore. Tap a slightly oversized bare ball down the bore. Then use the weight of the rod to drive back out the ball.

Never occurred to me to try that. Wow, I learn something every day!

 

[Spikebuck]

When I got home I mic'ed the balls and see they vary in diameter but average about .493 so they were oversized. My son did have one ball drop down the bore about 6 inches. I mic'ed a few that were .487 but were irregular.

A lot of good advice already given. Another would be to get a different source for your round balls. Having them vary by as much as you describe is poor quality and I would think that you will never get as accurate of groups as is possible with that much variance in diameter, and with size difference, weight as well.

 

[El Toro]

A lot of good advice already given. Another would be to get a different source for your round balls. Having them vary by as much as you describe is poor quality and I would think that you will never get as accurate of groups as is possible with that much variance in diameter, and with size difference, weight as well.

Yes surprising since they're Hornady. Probably outsourced to China :shake:

 

[gwalker]

A lot of excellent advice has already been given, but I just wanted to add the Missouri Bullet Company (http://missouribullet.com/results.php?category=8) and their muzzleloading round balls. I use their 0.487 round balls, Eastern Maine Shooting patches (http://www.emshootingsupplies.com/) 0.015 inches thick, and just plain commercial lard for patch lube. This has given me the best combination for my 50 cal flintlock longrifle for competitive shooting and hunting.

As with all of my muzzleloading shooting, I run a damp (not wet) patch or tow down the barrel between every shot to make the loading of the rifle easier and to maintain some constancy between shots.

After a shooting session, I use only water for clean-up.

 

[rushlake1]

bore is fine!
Have you polished the crown?
which helps during loading.
smaller round ball..
thinner patch.
better lube.
ram rod with ball puller.
all good advice give by others.

tap into muzzle half way using over sized round ball..looks like a mushroom pull it out and measure new formed end.....takes 30 seconds.

 

[koauke]

I had trouble finding patch material for my pedersoli kentucky in .50. I use .490 Hornady round balls and .015 patch material. Anything thicker and I can't start the ball and .010 feels to easy to start.
http://www.rmcoxyoke.com/inc/sdetail/ox_yoke_originals___bulk_shooting_material__/6574/221

I use this and cut at the muzzle, I wish I could find similar material at the fabric store, its not ticking and I don't think its canvas. Interestingly pre-cut patches by the same company and of the same thickness are to difficult to start the ball.

This stuff works great in my Pedersoli though.

 

[excess650]

pocket drill?

 

[Kapow]

My two cents worth is to use an over powder wad or patch which may allow you to get away with using a thinner patch for the ball. Such as 0.010.

 

[Fishdog64]

I would try a Minnie ball or other type of lead. Down the bier before you use wood. Then just screw in a puller and pull it out. You can get good readings like that.
My guess is your patch is a bit thick. Try a 10, if you're using an 18 that will make a huge difference.

 

[Shedhunter]

Lets see, a Harbor Freight digital micrometer, vs. Hornady quality control. Which do you think is better? Measure with a quality mic and you will see very little difference in ball size. And no, they aren't made in china. Made right here in the USA.