Bought a pieta 1858 Remington. Looking for some load data and answers.

[muzzleloadingat18]

I just purchased an 1858 remington, 5.5 in bbl from Midway. Expect delivery in a week. The price was too hard to ignore. They are having a sale and promo! Cost, $ 316.00!!!! Can't beat that with a stick. IMHO

Got really lucky on mine found it at a pawn shop in brand new steel frsme unfired condition for 265$ tax and all.

 

[muzzleloadingat18]

Got really lucky on mine found it at a pawn shop in brand new steel frsme unfired condition for 265$ tax and all.

And not to mention it's a 2022 production pistol with the adjustable front sight

 

[muzzleloadingat18]

I doubt that using 40 grains of powder would result in any realistic gain in a 5.5" barrel. That short barrel will not effectively burn all that powder. You WILL get tremendous recoil, horrible muzzle flash, and probably abysmal accuracy. I actually shoot better with the Colt style sights, but I've been doing it four plus decades. The Colts tend to shoot high, even more so with conicals. Some Pietta's will not shoot conicals well due to the slow twist rate (1 in 30") of their revolvers. I have posted a lot of chrono data on this forum, including side by side results using my 5.5" and 8" Pietta Remingtons. You can find thise threads using the search. A round ball at 1100 fps, very doable in a 8" barrel, might be a better option than a conical. Don't get caught up in "Magnum Mania" and getting all impressed by ft./lbs. of energy. Round Balls are very effective killers, have less recoil, and are usually more accurate. That is true for your Hawken Rifle also, PRB's are my go to projectiles in my rifles, and i use a very moderate powder charge, 60 grains (volume) in my .54's. Kills deer and bear just fine.

I actually shot my first deer with 70gn and a round ball in my tc Hawkins. Deer didn't have much to say about me not using a 200gn conical and 90gn of powder. People kill deer with bows so I think **** placement is key for anything.

 

[ColonialRifleSmith]

I bought the sheriff with the 5.5in barrel and am looking for a good load that would work on deer. Ik I'm barking up the wrong tree with the short barrel but I think it's possible. I have a 200gn deep hollow point for 45acp that I think will work wonderfully. I think I can cram 35gn of pyrodex under it. What velocity am I looking forward to. I want to use a heavy HP to make up for the short barrel and help the powder burn and I don't want over penetration because it will all so be my carry pistol. No I'm not a felon I'm 18 and the founding fathers said I should be able to carry a gun so I will. For the record I absolutely love the 58 Remington my 1860 army is great and all but it just doesn't tickle my fancy the same.

Should have been a book in the box with all the info you need. Go to the Pietta site and download the manual. Semper Fi

 

[AlexB]

I have the same model and it likes 35 or 40 grains of pyrodex or 777 for roundball.
Usually shoot 35 behind conicals.
The loading arm latch popped off within a couple hundred shots.
I just use a loader off the gun and have a Howell cylinder pin retainer for the cylinder pin.
I wouldn't want it as a backup on big hogs.

 

[muzzleloadingat18]

Should have been a book in the box with all the info you need. Go to the Pietta site and download the manual. Semper Fi

The book and reality never line up. They recommend something like 25gn of pyrodex as a max. When 40 is the realistic max. Plus the boon won't say anything about using cast bullets meant for 45acp

 

[SPQR70AD]

here is my 1858. a real mans guns not a squirt gun

 

[Jedidiah]

I received my pistol from Midway!! Could not be more pleased. I have attached multiple pictures to show that Midway does ship an excellent product! The new 1858 Remington has upgrades of dovetailed front sight and dovetailed loading lever stud! That is two issues people complained about that Pietta addressed.The Bluing and polishing is first rate, better than my original from 2012!! It is simply beautiful. Fit and finish is outstanding. Look at the pics! The Grips and other pieces show excellent fitment!Action is very nice, locks up cleanly without issues. Also, it appears Pietta is not using the old Italian Dating format anymore. There is no letter codes in the box. There is a date stamped under the loading lever in English!! I am tempted to order another one, because they are still on sale! I paid $315 plus $11 shipping and tax. You can not beat that price. The new one is on the left!

 

[muzzleloadingat18]

V3 of the mold has a bigger hollow base to make a true wad cutter and throws about 165gn. The step is longer so you can easily push more than half of the wad cutter in the hole and still shave a little ring of lead

 

[AlexB]

We have two 2023 made Pietta 1858's one in 45 and one in 36.
Both front sights are dovetailed but the lever arm latch is press fit........fell off the 45 already.

 

[SPQR70AD]

We have two 2023 made Pietta 1858's one in 45 and one in 36.
Both front sights are dovetailed but the lever arm latch is press fit........fell off the 45 already.

JB weld will hold it and it will never come off

 

[Vic]

$352 for now

 

[Smokerr]

I had the sight on an old ASP NMA come off, super glue still has it holding tight.

 

[muzzleloadingat18]

Sorry posted to the wrong place this is cast for my Home made mold. V3 of the mold has a bigger hollow base to make a true wad cutter and throws about 165gn. The step is longer so you can easily push more than half of the wad cutter in the hole and still shave a little ring of lead View attachment 290794View attachment 290795View attachment 290796

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I bought the sheriff with the 5.5in barrel and am looking for a good load that would work on deer. Ik I'm barking up the wrong tree with the short barrel but I think it's possible. I have a 200gn deep hollow point for 45acp that I think will work wonderfully. I think I can cram 35gn of pyrodex under it. What velocity am I looking forward to. I want to use a heavy HP to make up for the short barrel and help the powder burn and I don't want over penetration because it will all so be my carry pistol. No I'm not a felon I'm 18 and the founding fathers said I should be able to carry a gun so I will. For the record I absolutely love the 58 Remington my 1860 army is great and all but it just doesn't tickle my fancy the same.

Actually IF you really need to carry that, I'd suggest .454 round ball though some sources might recommend a .451 round ball or some modern design bullets in .451. You want a balance of Muzzle Velocity and bullet weight. That soft round ball will work fine. BP isn't like modern powder, and compression isn't helping your powder burn as much as with a modern cartridge situation. Further, you have a trade-off between the amount of powder vs. the distance to the cylinder gap. While it is true that a bullet shaped projectile will seal the chamber longer than a round ball due to shape, the extra weight and longer length means less powder and velocity; plus the added friction of a modern bullet alloy along with the greater bearing surface, and you may be actually losing something from the combo. You might even find that the round ball deforms as well or perhaps better than the hollow-point in the modern alloy ..., IF you're not casting your own. Hollow points, even lead alloy, perform better with higher velocities than one often sees when using BP. I don't think there's going to be an issue of pass-through.

ALL of what I've written for your particular handgun is conjecture, based on what I've seen with my own handguns..., you really ought to do a chronograph test, and also a gel block test, to check for performance on deer and SD.

LD

 

[muzzleloadingat18]

Actually IF you really need to carry that, I'd suggest .454 round ball though some sources might recommend a .451 round ball or some modern design bullets in .451. You want a balance of Muzzle Velocity and bullet weight. That soft round ball will work fine. BP isn't like modern powder, and compression isn't helping your powder burn as much as with a modern cartridge situation. Further, you have a trade-off between the amount of powder vs. the distance to the cylinder gap. While it is true that a bullet shaped projectile will seal the chamber longer than a round ball due to shape, the extra weight and longer length means less powder and velocity; plus the added friction of a modern bullet alloy along with the greater bearing surface, and you may be actually losing something from the combo. You might even find that the round ball deforms as well or perhaps better than the hollow-point in the modern alloy ..., IF you're not casting your own. Hollow points, even lead alloy, perform better with higher velocities than one often sees when using BP. I don't think there's going to be an issue of pass-through.

ALL of what I've written for your particular handgun is conjecture, based on what I've seen with my own handguns..., you really ought to do a chronograph test, and also a gel block test, to check for performance on deer and SD.

LD

Going to use a 150gn hollow base wadcutter. It uses the cylinder space more efficiently than a round ball and is a more efficient shape for expanding. It's a mold I made myself. Also I'm not using a modern alloy just pure lead as soft as it will cast. The increased friction going into the forcing cone will actually cause pressure to build and a bit better velocity. The bullet design allows the bullet to seal the chamber gap for about a half inch after firing adding to the improved pressure. Round balls are good because they are faster but in my opinion it's a poor design for expansion or any real performance. The front of a wad cutter starts out .450 the front of a round ball starts out .000000001 it has a long way to go before the front expands to match or exceed .450. i do understand that a round ball will expand from the middle and flatten out. And the wounding characteristics are nothing to sneeze at. Just my 0.02

 

[muzzleloadingat18]

And because Dave mentioned testing. What is y'all's opinion on dirt testing for bullet expansion and performance. Over on the cast bullets forum many very experienced people swear by it. I have done it quite a bit and I find that soft dirt is a good test for lead bullets. But it won't tell you penetration. But with velocity and expansion I can figure penetration. I don't believe in water testing and gel is expensive. Though I could also test on pigs or take a deer with my rifle and then shoot him again with the pistol before I gut him to see.

 

[AlexB]

JB weld will hold it and it will never come off

I prefer to load off the gun on a press so went with the retention clip.

Some decent expansion out of a erasgone mold only lost a couple grains of weight.

 

[Smokerr]

First its a beyond iffy carry for SD but if you want to, that is your right to do so. No one said we should be protected from poor decisions, just that it should not impact the rest of us.

You already have your metric for what works, you are shooting animals. Nothing replaces an animal though you mostly shoot those from the side so its not a full front human.

Ballistic gel or you home made gel is far better. It does not duplicate shooting people but it gives you a comparison of penetration or lack there of. Its somewhat analogous to a body but lacks the cloth layers and ribs (center of mass)

It sounds like you are having fun playing with it but if you are serious and want to carry a BP pistol, get a conversion cylinder for it and use a proven cartdige and bullet. Maybe not as fun as playing with things but the reality is you are trying to reinvent the airplane.

The bullet and cartridge mfgs have spent tens of millions and have real research behind them. You are not going to even come close.

And dirt? Tells you nothing.

String up your deer and put some rounds into it from the front, that will tell you something relevant.

Penetration is a combination of lead hardness and holding together, that is why modern SD ammo is built the way it is. The guides up here have shifted to a 45-70 cartridge gun (usually the level action) with hard cast lead to penetration on a brown bear. )

I hunted with a 7 mm and you are not going to beat 2800 fps at 175 grain hunting bullet in your wildest dreams with a hand gun. Have I carried a hand gun? Yes. Its better than nothing but its a poor 2nd to a good rifle and hunting bullet.

 

[muzzleloadingat18]

First its a beyond iffy carry for SD but if you want to, that is your right to do so. No one said we should be protected from poor decisions, just that it should not impact the rest of us.

You already have your metric for what works, you are shooting animals. Nothing replaces an animal though you mostly shoot those from the side so its not a full front human.

Ballistic gel or you home made gel is far better. It does not duplicate shooting people but it gives you a comparison of penetration or lack there of. Its somewhat analogous to a body but lacks the cloth layers and ribs (center of mass)

It sounds like you are having fun playing with it but if you are serious and want to carry a BP pistol, get a conversion cylinder for it and use a proven cartdige and bullet. Maybe not as fun as playing with things but the reality is you are trying to reinvent the airplane.

The bullet and cartridge mfgs have spent tens of millions and have real research behind them. You are not going to even come close.

And dirt? Tells you nothing.

String up your deer and put some rounds into it from the front, that will tell you something relevant.

Penetration is a combination of lead hardness and holding together, that is why modern SD ammo is built the way it is. The guides up here have shifted to a 45-70 cartridge gun (usually the level action) with hard cast lead to penetration on a brown bear. )

I hunted with a 7 mm and you are not going to beat 2800 fps at 175 grain hunting bullet in your wildest dreams with a hand gun. Have I carried a hand gun? Yes. Its better than nothing but its a poor 2nd to a good rifle and hunting bullet.

All due respect I think you don't respect the power a 45 caliber hole in your chest has. People die alot easier and faster than deer. On top of that if you look at the way our chest is built and the side of a deer it's actually a good medium. Dirt dose prove something. Soft dirt is a very consistent medium to compare one bullet to another, And back to a cap and ball for self defense I can load it to the equivalent of a warm 45acp again I think you underestimate the stoping power of having a hole put in you. Humans have a thin set of ribs then heart and lungs then more ribs. For self defense I was thinking a backwards wadcutter style bullet for 4 yards and in. Because I know for a fact I can get it to expand to well beyond 50cal. For the record it's a 200gn bullet going 900fps. Home cast soft lead. The whole FBI penetration thing is B's it takes 6 inches to reach your heart and lungs at most. I acknowledge that cloths exist but where I live it's 95° most of the year, and on top of that I don't think a good winter coat is going to slow down a 45. I don't want or need 18 inches of penetration that's just wasted energy in anyone under 300lb. To correct something you said penetration is mass velocity and hardness. Not just hardness alone. When hunting the pistol will be my second to a good rifle. I would like to know why you compare self defense to bear defence. If you are going to bring up reliability problems I'm going to seal nipple and cylinder with clear nail polish so it's air tight. And just to make sure I'm clear. A 45 acp is iffy at best to be trusted to stop somone? Same caliber same velocity so why is my cap and ball iffy?