Boy Scouts Building Rifles - Need Kit Suggestions

[54ball]

DO any of you have any suggestions for where I might be able to find a really cheap muzzleloader kit? Maybe something less than $150 or so?

"Cheap Muzzleloader kit" is a oxymoron.

I suggest you find a complete rifle used. If you look you can find a used rifle in your price range, You just have look. Try pawn shops and online auctions look for a CVA, Jukar or Traditions rifle.

As far as building....

Powder horns
Root ball war clubs
Pipe Tomahawks
6 board Colonial Era Box
18th Century Camp furniture...there are patterns for these.

I have always thought a authentic longrifle or smoothbore project from start to finish would be a great Scout project. There are so many badges that could be applied to such a project but the reality of making that happen is the problem.

Good parts are going to run $500 plus, really being closer to $1000. This is not counting tools and finish materials.

You would have to have someone experienced or at least well studied in traditional building to act as the master.

Then there is dividing the work amongst the boys and transferring that vision into the mind and eventually out of the hands of each individual.

Some boys have an attention span of a gnat and a gun built traditionally is going to be a long tedious haul.

Maybe you and the boys need to set up a 18th Century work shop. That way the master and the boys get more experience doing small projects and eventually they may be able to tackle such a task.

Who knows if you do good work with the small stuff, you may can sell it for larger projects.

 

[vulture]

First off I would not try to have them build anything other than a semi finished kit, some may have the skills to do more but many won't, these are just avarage boys after all. I know this because our scout troop did this very thing when my oldest son was a boy scout and I had to do a lot of advising to help him get the kit together. I believe they were TC Hawken kits. You might also drop by and talk to your logal American Legion post if you have one, being a member of the American Legion I know that we are always interested in trying to help our young people in any way we deem positive, although we don't always have the funds available to do so. It won't do any harm to ask.

 

[davidmc62]

I think Jode's the original intent of the message was to have the youth actually "assemble" and shoot. That would make the project SO MUCH more fun and rewarding to them if they have a hand in building them. I would definitely approach traditions, Thompson Center, CVA etc. to see if they have or would be interested in this kind of project or activity. We have a Scouter in Austin area that was actually good at grant writing and he was given 6 Savage rifles in .22 and 6 Ruger pistols in .22 for the youth shooting sports program in our council. These I believe were free of charge. I bring this up because it could possibly work to your favor. Scouting is still a big popular write off to these business and they are usually only TOO willing to help.

 

[TNGhost]

jode,

Getting closer:
http://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/traditions-kentucky-rifle-kit/pid-954712 ($239.99)

Don't know if you have Academy around there, but I bet they would work with scouts to help out.

The nice thing about these kits is that they are designed to be finished with normal tools you'd find around your garage or home. They are not going to be near what a custom top end kit is, but they can be made to look really nice and will function and shoot well. They come with clear instructions and anyone who is handy working with hand tools can succeed with these.

Traditions dealers in Utah
https://traditionsfirearms.com/dealer-locator/search/state/UT

I got my start in BP when my mother gave me a CVA (very similar to Traditions) Kentucky pistol kit as a teen. That launched me into a lifelong enjoyable pastime.

How many scouts are you going to have building these?

 

[satx78247]

AGREED. = The kits bought for our Explorer posts by the bank were CVA Mountain Rifles & SOME of the 14-18YO had to have a GREAT DEAL of help from an advisor to get their kit "shooting".

just my opinion, satx

 

[jode]

Probably 5-7 boys depending.

And yeah, I've mulled over taking it from the barrel and building everything from scratch from there - I may yet try that for myself, but yeah, there's no way I could do it with all the kids. It would be too much trial and error and custom work on my end to be able to teach them anything. The kit where you just finish the wood, blue the barrel and assemble would be perfect. I'm working on the fundraising issue and will approach the vendors as suggested. You guys are great and I really appreciate all the help and awesome suggestions. I've now got a number of viable options for making this happen.

:bow:

 

[satx78247]

BEAT WISHES on your ML project.

yours, satx
Asst. SM, Troop 101.

 

[54ball]

Link St Louis Hawken

Very good kit still made new.

Link Spingfield Hawken

The Springfield is a very simple kit, personally I think the best for your plans but as the add says, these have not been produced since 2000. I have one in flint, great little rifle.

The Kentucky is a decent kit but it is more challenging.

Link Hawk Kit

A good activity to build skill.

Link Dixons Book

A inexpensive build book with good info.

 

[Col. Batguano]

First of all, are they BOY Scouts, or Venture Scouts?

A true build is 140+ hours.
A sand, stain, finish and assemble "kit" is 30 hours. I've never known boys in that age range to have the patience, or skill set necessary to do a true build. And they cost more. With that kind of time investment, who is going to own it in the end?

Another option if you want to go the real build route is for you, or someone in the troop to buy the parts, and you will wind up as the owner in the end.

Builds of percussion guns (the only option to shoot BP in Scouting) are pretty tricky to get that drum located just right so it's supported by the lock.

If you poke around the net a bunch you might be able to find an abandoned kit for $150 or so.

 

[jode]

They're Varsity Scouts, so a little older, but still a bunch of goofballs with short attention spans. I can tell you though, when I mentioned the possibility of doing this, they all lit up like they rarely do and they were all focused on me 100%.

I guess building it up from scratch is not an option (though I may give it a shot some day for a personal rifle), but from what I understand, building from a "kit" should be totally within their capabilities.
Ideally, I'd like each of them to build their own rifle (would be cool if they each were able to choose their own model) and keep it for the rest of their lives. From the comments in this thread so far, my confidence has been restored that it is a real possibility that we could make that happen.

 

[TNGhost]

Love that part about their faces lit up. Be aware, when word gets out the troop is doing this, you may have a few more boys wanting to sign up.

Most of the kits will go together with just minor fitting of the metal to wood. You could almost throw them together, unfinished, in an evening, with a hammer drill and screwdriver to the point where they would shoot. It's the finishing and taking the time to get them to look nice that's the work.

I built a CVA pistol kit when I was 13-14. It shot fine the first time out of the gate, and I shot it a lot and had a lot of fun with it over the years. Compared to guns I've aquired since then, it looks like manure(like a 13 year old built it). But I built it, still have it, and it's priceless to me.

Its a great thing your doing, your scouts will remember it long after they've outgrown the troop.

 

[Col. Batguano]

I would look at this as the Varsity Scout equivilent of a Pinewood Derby car. Maybe even make it a father-son deal, with prizes & trophys too. (Varsity Teams are a bit different than Troops & Crews anyway.) You know how that worked. The Tiger Cubs' cars were the fastest and best finished. The Webelos' kids cars looked and raced the worst. Well, that tells you who built them doesn't it? The problem with a kit build is the cost to each participant. It's not a $5-$6 kit you can buy at the Scout Shop.

My experience with Boy Scouts, Venturers, and Sea Scouts around the shooting sports is all pretty similar. They love the shooting part, but the work associated with BP wore pretty thin after about 5-6 shots. And, the mandatory cleaning really wore out after about 2 sessions.

 

[mooman76]

What about looking for some used BP guns and have the refinish them? They would still gain some experience and they could personalize the wood to make it their own.

 

[davidmc62]

They're Varsity Scouts, so a little older, but still a bunch of goofballs with short attention spans. I can tell you though, when I mentioned the possibility of doing this, they all lit up like they rarely do and they were all focused on me 100%.

I guess building it up from scratch is not an option (though I may give it a shot some day for a personal rifle), but from what I understand, building from a "kit" should be totally within their capabilities.
Ideally, I'd like each of them to build their own rifle (would be cool if they each were able to choose their own model) and keep it for the rest of their lives. From the comments in this thread so far, my confidence has been restored that it is a real possibility that we could make that happen.

Keep in mind, you will be dealing with BSA policies and they don't always make sense. You need to talk to your local council executive and find out exactly what you can and can not do here. Unfortunately, there are a whole lot of rules and regulations you must adhere to concerning youth shooting sports.
If you are trying to get donations and or grants for rifles, I would think personal ownership would be out. It is my understanding and I may be wrong, but when you buy equipment for a scout group the ownership is usually transferred or tied to the sponsoring org. in order to be covered under BSA polices and insurance etc. SATX chime in here if you have a little more incite as I am not up on allot of BSA policies. I'm an old scout from the 70's and 80's and did not get back into the program as an adult till about 6 years ago and believe me it is a whole nother animal than the program I grew up in.
I don't know how BSA would take to you buying and giving each scout a rifle to keep. Not to mention the permissions you would need from the individual parents of each scout. What if a family is anti gun in their home? Would that boy not be given the same opportunity as the others?
I don't mean to be wet blanket but I thought I should mention a few thoughts I had from your post. I praise you for wanting to bring the shooting sports to your youth as it has been lost a long time. We are very active in our council here in Central TX. with shooting sports.
The last 4 - 5 years has seen an increase of NRA certifications to allot of our council adult volunteers which has driven this increase in shooting activities in the council. I am talking about activities OUTSIDE of summer camp, like what you are researching to do.
Whatever you do, don't get discouraged about a few minor road blocks because what ever YOU and YOUR volunteers can do to bring this knowledge, safety and experiences to your youth is very much worth the headache you may have to go through to get it done.

 

[davidmc62]

They're Varsity Scouts, so a little older, but still a bunch of goofballs with short attention spans. I can tell you though, when I mentioned the possibility of doing this, they all lit up like they rarely do and they were all focused on me 100%.

I guess building it up from scratch is not an option (though I may give it a shot some day for a personal rifle), but from what I understand, building from a "kit" should be totally within their capabilities.
Ideally, I'd like each of them to build their own rifle (would be cool if they each were able to choose their own model) and keep it for the rest of their lives. From the comments in this thread so far, my confidence has been restored that it is a real possibility that we could make that happen.

Keep in mind, you will be dealing with BSA policies and they don't always make sense. You need to talk to your local council executive and find out exactly what you can and can not do here. Unfortunately, there are a whole lot of rules and regulations you must adhere to concerning youth shooting sports.
If you are trying to get donations and or grants for rifles, I would think personal ownership would be out. It is my understanding and I may be wrong, but when you buy equipment for a scout group the ownership is usually transferred or tied to the sponsoring org. in order to be covered under BSA polices and insurance etc. SATX chime in here if you have a little more incite as I am not up on allot of BSA policies. I'm an old scout from the 70's and 80's and did not get back into the program as an adult till about 6 years ago and believe me it is a whole nother animal than the program I grew up in.
I don't know how BSA would take to you buying and giving each scout a rifle to keep. Not to mention the permissions you would need from the individual parents of each scout. What if a family is anti gun in their home? Would that boy not be given the same opportunity as the others?
I don't mean to be wet blanket but I thought I should mention a few thoughts I had from your post. I praise you for wanting to bring the shooting sports to your youth as it has been lost a long time. We are very active in our council here in Central TX. with shooting sports.
The last 4 - 5 years has seen an increase of NRA certifications to allot of our council adult volunteers which has driven this increase in shooting activities in the council. I am talking about activities OUTSIDE of summer camp, like what you are researching to do.
Whatever you do, don't get discouraged about a few minor road blocks because what ever YOU and YOUR volunteers can do to bring this knowledge, safety and experiences to your youth is very much worth the headache you may have to go through to get it done.

 

[Patocazador]

I don't have anything to add to this topic except I think it is great to get the kids involved in a project like this. satx is a fountain of knowledge and obviously has been an invaluable asset to his area for years.
I credit the Boy Scouts with getting me hooked on shooting in an inner-city YMCA with single-shot .22s. I learned many good lessons from my 4 years in the Scouts and made it to Life scout before girls, cars, etc. interfered.

As a former business owner, I was more than happy to sponsor my local troop with a donation to pay for flags they erected on Flag Day and Independence Day. A great organization as long as they continue attract moral leaders.

Many parents allow the schools and TV to raise their kids. Good leaders can help steer them in the right direction.

 

[Col. Batguano]

BSA has a few rules you need to pay attention to;
Supervision on the range has to be 2 people at a minimum. 1 is the RSO, and the other the Instructor. Supervision in BP is 1:1, particularly for the loading sequence.
Boy Scouts and Varsity Scouts must shoot in-lines or cap locks. No flint, matchlocks, or wheelies.
Maximum caliber is 58.
No human likeness targets.
They recommend light loads.
All ranges need to be inspected by a Chief RSO, and registered with the Council Shooting Sports Committee. Re-inspection every 2 years.

 

[84bronze]

How about start off small with having a friend or friend of the Scouts that has a muzzleloader come in for a show and tell? Take the gun apart and explain how they work. Explain how they are built and let that sink in.

Give that time to soak in and get responses from the parents. If that goes good then plan a trip to a local farm and shoot at some bottles.

If that goes over good then decide whether to go to local businesses and families that support the Scouts and get sponsorship money for a build. The amount of sponsorship can help determine how you proceed. I think at this point any amount of exposure will be embedded into their memories. You could end up with a big project that fathers could be volunteering to "help".

Get a local gun shop to donate a build rifle to Scouts and then promote a raffle of it when finished. Even just auction it for sale.

It's all going to depend on the community you live in.