BP crud ring?

[mikee51848]

I notice that after 2 shots, using 65 gr Swiss 3f, Lehigh Lubed patch, in my .50, I have to exert a lot of pressure to get the ball seated the last 1/2 down the barrel. I can definitely feel some obstruction. When I used to shoot them other guns, they refered to this as a "crud ring". Does anyone else experience this with BP?

 

[Gemoke]

I get the same thing in my 36cal. but not till I `ve fired about 20 shots. thats when I swab out

 

[Birddog6]

Probably because of the tremendous inferno going on in the chamber & it is totally disintregating your lube. Unless you have one H of a tight patch/ball combo, the Lehigh is never gonna take that heat you are exposing it to..
Were you shooting 1.5F or maybe 2F Swiss and a tight ball/patch combo you may get away with this.. However, IMHO, 3F Swiss in a .50 cal is burning too hot & too fast. Most likely it is just frying the lube to the barrel.
Another consideration is your ball/patch fit. The hotter the load the tighter it has to be to keep it sealed well & no pressure escaping. :hmm:
Now lots of guys say "Oh I shoot 3F Swiss in my 50, 54, 58, 62, 78, 99 cal all the time......." That doesn't mean it is right or safe or correct... it simply means they do it & got away with it.
Call Main Powder House & ask JR. what powder he recommends in a .50 cal. It will not be 3F. Now if you say well CAN I shoot 3F in it, well, you Can shoot anything in it. But does it perform correctly ??? :hmm:

 

[Smokey in Oz]

Mate,
I'd be looking at getting a different lube/solvent.
I ran 60 grains of Swiss 3F in my 50cal with .490ball and .015 patch, a tight load but I never had loading problems until around 15 shots.
I now run 65grains of Wano 3P using the same patch/ball combination and find I need to swab the bore after 10 shots.
Swiss is good clean powder, it's gotta be the lube.

Smokey. :thumbsup:

 

[dlpowell]

I use Bore Butter and never have a problem with crud build up. Also use TOTW Mink Oil with the same results. Load is Goex 60gr. 2f for target, 90 gr. 2f for hunting. pillow ticking patch, and a .530 rb in my 54 cal GRP.

 

[Old Salt]

I shoot 45 grains of Goex 2f in a .45 Rice barrel and will notice some crud after 15 shots. I'm using pillow ticking and spit for lube.

Old Salt

 

[bpbrs]

Lehigh Lubed patch

Try another lube, tighten up your patch

 

[Blizzard of '93]

I do get it, but I dry-patch with a loose fitting patch after every shot anyway. I use a light powder charge of 3f in my .50, just a 7.62X39 (AK-47) caseful for plinking. It's about 33 grs. I practice some with my hunting charge of 72 grs. when hunting time nears. every 4-5 shots I run a bore brush in-out then dry patch. I figure that is like my hunting charge because I hunt with a fouled bore, after I load again I dry patch the bore. I get consistent shot to shot accuracy that way.

 

[Mad Monk]

Your problem is the use of 65 grains of Swiss #Fg in the .50 caliber.

I had run into the same thing when I first tested the Swiss powder.

The Swiss suggest that the 3Fg powder be used in calibers up to .36. Above that you go to the larger grain sizes.

The Swiss powder is a true sporting powder. Burns very hot. A good bit hotter than a rifle type powder (GOEX, Schuetzen and KIK). Gas temperatures hot enough to begin fusing the bore fouling into something resembling foundry slag under the microscope.
If you drop down to 55 to 60 grains you should see an end to the "crud ring". The crud ring being a band of powder heated to the point where it melts and fuses to the bore's surfaces.

In my .50 cal. ml rifles I have gone to Swiss 2Fg and no crud rings up to 70 grain charges.

Keep in mind that 55 to 60 grains of the Swiss 3Fg is equal to 70 to 80 grains of a rifle type (burn rate) powder in ballistic strength.

In my .50 caliber Lyman Trade Rifle dropping just 5 grains in charge volume was the difference between a noticeable crud ring and no crud ring at all.

 

[ldykeman]

I too have a lot of crud in the bore whenever I shoot. I have a T/C Renegade with 1/66" T/C barrel. I have shot anywhere from 60 to 120 grains of double f Goex, and no matter what load I shoot, I HAVE to swab between shots, as there is so much buildup. I shoot a .490 round ball and T/C precut patches, and have used either T/C no. 13 or bore butter as patch lube. This is a very tight combination in my barrel, and I have to use both tips of the short starter, then push very firmly with the ramrod to get it seated (even after swabbing). I have to pound it in with a solid brass rod if I don't swab between shots. I have read in amazement of many people who post here of how they get a lot of shots without swabbing. I can't even get two. I have some Hoppes No. 9 Plus but haven't tried it yet as a patch lube. Maybe next time I take it out for some exersize I will try that.
Larry

 

[FTW]

I use Hoppes#9 plus for patch lube with goex 2f in the flintlocks and in the percussion guns with triple 7.I generally shoot 30 to 50 shots when I go to the range without cleaning at all til I get home.I use .020 thick patches for all,.45,.50,.54,and.58.I put as many patches as I can get in a musket cap can and put enough hoppes#9 plus in there so that they soak it all up to the point that they are wet but not dripping wet.

 

[mikee51848]

Great, and I just bought more 3f too. Well I'm not making any changes now, until after the season is over.

 

[Bob J]

I get the crud ring in my .54 swamped GM barrel using a prety tight combo; .018 pillow ticking, East Maine Shooting Supply Lube (like wonder-lube), and a .535 ball. This is with my hunting charge of 90 grains Goex 3f. Its very accurate, however, and I don't really want to change it. May try 2f in the future.

 

[PitchyPine]

I use Hoppes#9 plus for patch lube with goex 2f in the flintlocks and in the percussion guns with triple 7.I generally shoot 30 to 50 shots when I go to the range without cleaning at all til I get home.I use .020 thick patches for all,.45,.50,.54,and.58.I put as many patches as I can get in a musket cap can and put enough hoppes#9 plus in there so that they soak it all up to the point that they are wet but not dripping wet.

I used to have a TC Hawken 50 flinter that i would shoot maxi balls in that would shoot a long time before i had to clean. The grooves in those maxi balls held a lot of lube and the bore would be wet.
What i`m gathering here is apparently ya want enough lube on your patch to keep that bore wet.
I`m using pre cut and lubed patches now in my Blue ridge over 70 gr. FF and can only get three shots before cleaning. Those pre cut patches are pretty dry so should i soak them with bore butter, the more the better?

 

[biliff]

I get 'em in both my .54 and .58 flintlocks, just not very bad. Usually after a number of rounds at the target range (60 and 75 grains, FFg respectively) the ball will stop about 1/4" above the powder. At that point I just "bounce" the ramrod once and it seats to the mark.

 

[mikee51848]

Do you think switching to Goex 3f would make a difference?

 

Since I switched to Crisco and a thinner patch I have no more of these problems.